Hello All,
I haven't been on this forum for awhile. A couple of years ago I almost bought a Newell but bought a Wanderlodge instead. I chose another Wanderlodge because I had previously owned two and was more familiar and comfortable with them. I am now in the market for a newer coach and have been looking at Prevosts and again at Newells. I would like to buy a coach in the '05 to '06 model year. I have noticed that there are several '05 and '06 Newell 2000i coaches on the market for sale at around $300k. As compared to a Prevost in the same vintage, these Newells are a bargain.
Can anyone here shed some light on why this is the case? It appears the quality of the Newells that I've looked at online is as good or better than a Prevost costing $100k to $150k more. This is especially true when comparing the interior of a Newell to any Prevost conversion including Liberty. The Newell interior is far and away better. The rear bath floorplan is exceptionally nice and functional.
So I ask the following questions;
Are there extraordinary high levels of repair & maintenance costs causing the current owners to sell at the lower price levels?
Does anyone have any ideal or an educated guess regarding what the average annual cost is to keep an '05 or'06 Newell 2000i maintained (mostly by the factory)?
Has anyone compared the drivability of a Newell to a Prevost of the same vintage?
Is the engine size (HP) adequate for the weight of a 2000i model? Are there any cooling issues on steep grades?
Is a 500hp DD sufficient or does the coach really need the 650hp engine?
Are the mechanicals reliable? i.e. chassis parts premature wear, etc.?
I would surely entertain buying a Newell over a Prevost if I could get more comfortable with what the level of maintenance is on a (say) '05 or '06 2000i model coach. I do want to look more closely at what these Newells have to offer and intend to test drive one soon.
So any information that anyone is willing to share on the reliability and performance of a '05/'06 Newell 2000i coach would be greatly appreciated.....
Chuck
Hi Chuck,
I will take a stab at a few of your questions. I have an 02 that shares some of the systems of one a few years newer.
my 02 has a gvrw of 55k lbs. the 500hp detroit does just fine. will i go up a 7% grade at 65mph, no. it will downshift. but it doesnt crawl either. i can be at freeway speeds by the time i enter the freeway from an onramp. there is plenty of power. my 500hp 8v92 on my previous 90 would slow down more as you would have to downshift to keep the rpms up to keep it cool.
i have kept my series 60 on cruise going up steep hills and once the engine temp hits 205, the high speed hydraulic fan kicks in and you can watch the temps go down into the 190's. as with any piece of machinery like this, we all monitor temps and pressures and most of us use silverleaf on our laptops.
i can only imagine what a 650hp cat would be like. like a race car.
when i bought my first newell, prevosts were on the list as well and have always commanded a premium. they just do.
just like the wanderlodge forums are biased towards wanderlodges, we will be biased towards newells here.
i do as much of my own service as i can and take the rest to a good buddy bus shop locally. when he needed parts to fix stuff (like brakes, air systems, etc, he would go to his parts room and get them) and they service overa 100 prevost tour bus's.
you are an experienced bus buyer so you know the drill. pictures can often be misleading and you have to know what you are getting into. parts for these babies (and wanderlodges/prevosts) are crazy expensive. and labor rates are about the same everywhere.
on mine all the suspension part are dana. on one with a steerable tag they are ZF. my 02 has 205k miles and drives like a caddy. a big one beit....
i have not driven a prevost of the same age. there are several here who have and hopefully they will comment. i imagine both to be a great driving experience.
as my dear friend wally would say......thats my two cents worth and i am stickin to it
tom
Chuck,
Good question...but you may have come to the wrong place for answers. Most of the folks around here have 2004 and older coaches. Although a few Gurus have newer coaches, most are from the previous vintage. Also, since most of the folks here HAVE Newells, you may find a certain "bias" in the answers.
With that said, here are my thoughts based on having a 2003 4 slide coach. (Same length, same weight, same type engine).
1. Maintenance is gonna be the same on any coach brand. Once you have a big diesel engine and heavy duty frame and normal "house" systems, the maintenance will average out to be the same. Newell's maintenance shop charges $118/hr which is similar to other maintenance shops. (Obviously some coaches break more than others and with the help of the Gurus many issues can be solved with a toolbox and time)
2. There is another thread on here that discusses annual maintenance costs. Most of us figure $10K / year in maintenance. Some would say more, some less.
3. I have never driven a Prevost, nor even a turning tag Newell, but I can say that Newell has continued to innovate in terms of the chassis systems. The turning tag axle is a huge benefit in turning these coaches in tight quarters.
4. There are no power / cooling issues with these coaches as far as I know. Properly maintained coaches are pretty much bullet proof. My coach has a 505HP Cat engine with 1850 ft-lbs of torque. It goes faster that I would want to go and has never made me think....Wow I wish I had a bigger engine. Ps. I averaged near 8 mpg on last trip.
At the end of the day, a lot of what would make a decision like this is how you will use the coach. If you are driving coast to coast a lot, have a lot of extra $$$ and like the styling of Prevost, then that might be a good option. For maximum floor space, super livability, and better styling a Newell may be the best option.
Good luck in your search.
bill
Have driven 05 and 06 Prevost's a Liberty and a Royal , one XLII and one 45 .. The Prevosts were "Dogs" when it came to acceleration. Braking was also longer with the Prevost and it felt like the extra weight was pushing my momentum forward far more than my 03 Newell. The Handling comparison to newer designs of both is like a 56 Cadillac until 2004 for Newells and like a smooth heavy City Bus for Prevost and still wouldn't trade the Newell ride and handling for any other no matter what the year and model.
I'm not an expert on the values of these coaches but I can share from my own experience. When I was shopping for my first coach I only knew of Prevost, Eagle, Blue Bird, GMC bus etc. I was fortunate to find a used Newell and that peaked my curiosity enough to do the research.
In the broader market I'm thinking that there are relatively few Newells and percentage wise fewer buyers who are aware enough to realize that a Newell is a true alternative to the buses as opposed to just another really expensive RV. Supply and demand may be an influencer on price differentials.
I help maintain and drive a 95' Liberty Xl 45 on the rally trip to spearfish, SD.. up the only long grade John in a Newer factory Newell with the 650 Cummings blew by me like I was setting still. I noted that the acceralition was steady but not impressive. But when at speed it makes time. Handling was good and a quite ride, I sorta like the retarder on the transmission. We made a 1000 miles or so in a day and got 7.4 mpg on the trip. My Newell experance is limited but like the ride and floor plans better.. The Prevost has 3 cruise airs and bus air.. Lots of maintiance and cost with them. 15k for a new compressor on the bus air last year alone.. The Prevost seems harder to work on than the Newell.. Hope that helps..
Thanks to all that have provided input so far. It is very helpful so keep it coming. Certainly, some bias from Newell owners is to be expected and taken into consideration but where better can one find a wealth of information about a Newell than that attained by the long term ownership of a Newell. If we were discussing a Wanderlodge, I would probably be perceived as bias too.
The “following” tag axle that Newell has added to its coach should be a great improvement so long as it works properly. Bluebird started installing a “following” tag axle in the (I believe) ’99 model LXi. My ’00 LXi came equipped from the factory with one. The original and previous owner had a lot of problems with it. He eventually took it back to the factory and had it replaced with a static tag axle. And “yes”, I do get the black tire marks of the tag tires on the pavement in a tight turn, especially if I forget to depressurize the tag air springs.
It appears that the following tax axle was unreliable to reset and lock itself straight again after unlocking and turning at low speeds. You can guess just how dangerous it was to drive a bus down the road with the tag axle unlocked. Many of this type tag axles have been removed & replaced on the Wanderlodge LXi or welded to prevent turning. And for the record, some LXi owners still have an active following tag and have not experienced any problems with it. Let’s all hope that Newell does not ever have that problem.
I like slides in a bus but not too many. I think two slides make a lot of sense from the stand point of less maintenance and livability with the slides retracted. Could someone tell me if you have to crawl across the cross bed to get to the rear bath in a four slide coach? Or is there room enough around the foot of the bed? I did see a rear bath floorplan with an island bed that would appear not to restrict bathroom access.
Correct me if I’m wrong but it appears that the ‘06 Newell (see link below) is equipped with one (1) 3000w inverter and (6) 8D house batteries. I’m surprised or maybe ignorant of how Newell keeps the batteries charged. Is there an additional separate battery charger?
I did see that the ’06 on Bus-Stuff has only 5000# towing & 500# tongue weight capacity?
http://www.bus-stuff.com/2006Newell_TMS724.html Is that typical?
As you can seeI have lots of questions about a Newell. I hope you will tolerate me and all my questions, I’m just trying to learn about Newells from the best source that I know.
Chuck
Chuck,
You might be mis-informed about the steering tag. It does not "follow" rather it actually turns.
The crawl vs walk to the rear bath....In many coaches with rear bath, they have a half bath midship that kinda negates need to get to the rear bath. In other cases, the bed kinda slides up to leave walking room. I have seen one that had a short bed that you could scoot past. Finally, some Newells have "murphy" beds that fold up when not in use. Since the Newells are all custom it depends on the unit. We like to say that there are no two Newells exactly alike so all comparisons are generalizations.
About number of slides...Michael can answer this better, but you will find it pretty difficult to find two slide Newells in this vintage. There are just not a lot of them built. I have seen a *few* three slides for sale.
The ZF tags on the Newells beginning during the 2004 models, although not all Newells had the ZF suspension until #697, are all "ZF active" steering rather than the passive "following tag" axles. Newell has been using them for over 12 years, without having significant issues with them. They make a tremendous difference in the turning radius and maneuverability of the coach, much more so than the passive units. I think you will be amazed with how much more maneuverable they make a large coach.
Newells do not have the air conditioners attached to the inverter so keeping the house batteries charged is not an issue.
Newells are capable of towing up to 20,000# depending on the hitch that is installed. Some were ordered with 5,000 pound hitches and some with much heavier duty hitches. Increasing the towing capacity is as easy as replacing the hitch itself.
Bill is correct on the number of slides. There were only about 4 2005 models and a couple of 2006 models that I am aware of with only 2 slides. There were more 2005 and 2006 models with 3 slides but still the vast majority had 4 slides. Most of the triple slides included 2 slides in the rear and one in the salon.