By the questions you will surely tell I'm a Newby. For 15 years i'v owned a 40' Vogue V. absolutely no issues othere than it's overweight. but it's time to find something else. We don't sit much as traveling is more fun. We are certainly not full timers. The wow factor of 4 slides is great BUT!
I'm looking at 2 or may 3 slides probably 2001 and newer (probably due to monetary constraints up to about 2005)
I know this is a loaded question but are there any particular problem areas that stand out in the 2001 and later Newells
So, Any Prevost style delaminations, radiator issues, suspension (new ZF suspensions or steerable tag really of any major benefit), overweight (blown tires are a bitch!), how often do air bags need changing, were the new Valid slides used to fix an inherent problem with the old?, or anything in general to look out for?
Any leads or guidelines would certrainly be appreciated
Thanks
Marino
[email protected]
Marino,
Remember this is going to be worth what you paid for it. I don't know of ANY specific year Newells that had problems that you would want to avoid. On the other hand all mechanical machines have issues that are usually directly related to the preventative maintenance the coach received--or didn't.
Newell started installing slides around '96 and used HWH as the supplier. These slides are hydraulic and overall maintenance and problem free. The HWH slides provided few problems until 2000/2001. The problem was caused by HWH providing some bad hydraulic hosing. They started bursting hoses and no one likes red hydraulic fluid on the interior of the million dollar coach. This issue affected many manufacturers, not just Newell. The bad hosing was replaced in all coaches, so no used coaches have this issue any more. Newell and most other manufacturers started looking for an alternative to hydraulic slides and Newell developed electric slides with Valid. Thus the change to Valid slides.
I have no first hand knowledge on some of your questions, so I'll let others deal with those.
Hope this helps with your search...........................
Steve has provided great input on the slide issue. The transition from HWH to Valid slides was during the 2003 model year with #645, then 650 on having the Valid electric slides. During the time period you list (2001-2005) there are some general statements that can be made.
1) All were originally fitted with 315/80R22.5 front tires. These tires on the heavier multi-slide coaches are marginal in their load carrying on the front. Newell recommends a maximum cruising speed of 65 mph for coaches using the 315 front tires and only recommends Michelin front tires. A front tire upgrade to 365/70R22.5 is recommended for the front and Newell recommends a max cruising speed of 75 mph for coaches with the 365 upgrade. For almost all coaches in the 2001-2004 range (except #671,681,685 and 697 on) the upgrade is relatively inexpensive as it only entails changing out the wheels and tires on the front. The exceptions are the coaches with the ZF suspensions (which included the highly desirable active steer tag axle). These also require wheel hubs and fender modifications to accommodate the larger tires so the price of the upgrade goes up significantly ($16,000 several years ago) so if the upgrade has not been done, you might want to consider the cost of that upgrade in your determination.
2) The ZF suspension change, as mentioned above occurred during the 2004 model year. All 2005 and newer Newells have the ZF suspension with the active steerable tag axle which is amazing.
3) Through 2004, virtually all of these coaches will have the venerable Detroit Diesel Series 60 and the Allison 6 speed Transmission. In 2005, Detroit was leaving the over the road diesel market and Newell was transitioning to Cats, first the C-13's then the C-15's. The C-15's were frequently mated with the ZF 10 or 12 speed transmissions.
4) The earlier the year model the more coaches were built with 2 or 3 slides. By 2005, most were 3 or 4 slides.
Thanks for that help.
Might anyone know if the 2-slide coaches still need of the 365 conversion as they should weigh less but maybe not where it counts, up front?
its easy to see how the steering rear axle would help. Is there an associated extra cost in keeping it working properly to a point where it may really not be worth it after-all?
Is the ZF suspension any better than the old or just done to improve weight carrying capacity? Curious as to why the factory didn't make it a requirement to have the 365's fitted when new?
Factory seemed to have gone with roof airs, more basement space, probably better air distribution and should be easier to maintain. Are there any disadvantages?
Certainly appreciate this groups knowledge and willingness to share
Marino
1998 Vogue V
For what its worth....here is one person's opinion...
Technically the 318's were mostly within tolerance but Newell recognized what when the 365's became available that they offer 1). better weight capacity and 2) better ride. 3) more safety margin. So if you can find a coach with the 365's you will find that the lower air pressure required will translate into a better smoother ride. I would personally look for a coach with the 365 upgrade even if only a two slide.
Almost all the coaches in your age range are 45'. These large coaches need a lot of room to turn around. The ZF suspension with the steerable tag reduce the turning radius A LOT.
I am not aware of any increased maintenance from the steer tags.
The roof airs have a shorter, easier path for the cold air to travel so they work better. Also, they free up storage space in the basement. Also they are easier to maintain / replace. The only downside to roof airs is the jealousy that I have from not having them.
Marino, Newell looks for tires with the highest load carrying and speed capabilities to put on their coaches. Tire manufacturers have continued to research and make available large higher capacity tires through the years. The tires available now are significantly more capable than the tires available in the 1990's and early 2000's.
Newell had great experience with Bridgestone and Goodyear 11R24.5 H load range front tires during the late 1980's and early to mid 1990's but when Newell started adding slides in 1997 (one in 1996), the axle weights increased and Newell changed to 315/80R22.5 tires on the front to add load carrying capacity. This was a bold move to have wheels and tires of different sizes on the front of the coach versus the drive and tag axle but it was necessary. Unfortunately, Newell owners began to experience tire failures on those front tires even though they had higher load capacities. Newell found that although the Bridgestone and Goodyear 11R24.5 had given great service only the Michelin 315/80R22.5 tire seemed to give good service in the 315/80R22.5 size tires. Newell had a recall and changed out all the non-Michelin 315 tires to Michelins tires solving most of the issues. As soon as higher load range tires became available, Newell began using them.
The 365/70R22.5 tires were not manufactured at the time Newell was using 315/80R22.5 tires.
After the conversion, there is no additional costs to running the 365/70R22.5 Michelin tires.
The ZF suspension is an excellent suspension that has served Newell well. The steering axle is the most obvious benefit but the suspension is capable of higher weight carrying capacities all around than the suspensions Newell used previously. In 1998 GVWR was 49,540 pounds. By 1999 it was 50,640 pounds. With the ZF suspension GVWR was raised to 56,000, then to 59,580 by 2006 and in the current Newells having a GWVWR of 63,300 pounds.
My 2000 model 2 slide coach had 315's on the front when I purchased it with 165,000 miles. So, those size tires served owners well for years. Also, the tires were well within the weight limit. However, I was not fully comfortable in all driving conditions with the handling, and did not like the roughness due to high air pressures. After upgrading to 365's, there is a noticeable improvement in ride and handling. If you purchase a coach with 315's, I would drive it a while to determine if you want the upgrade.
Concerning the basement vs roof airs. Once I installed the upgrade on my basement airs, I have been completely happy with performance and air flow. While roof airs would offer more basement space, I would just clutter it with unnecessary stuff I suspect. We are full timers and have plenty of storage now. One more thing, on my vintage of coach, to me, roof airs would cause more unsightly stuff on the roof. I prefer clean lines. The newer coaches have awnings on the roof instead of the side which hide roof airs. Bottom line, I would not shy away from a coach you like due to 315 tires or basement airs.
My .02 cents :-)
i have an 02 2 slide. i did the 365 upgrade. i had to made no changes and it just lug nutted up. the cost was minimal because i needed tires so the tire cost was about the same as the other ones. the wheels were pricey but i sold my old ones for half of what i spent on the new ones. so my upgrade cost was not very much. the gvwr of mine is 55k lbs. with the upgrade i can run 110-115lbs in the front tires compared to rock hard pressures on the 315's. you can notice it.
that said, those 365's are a pain in the rear to find. very few places stock them. i am on my second set. the first set i had to order. the second set i replaced on a trip a year ago after one separated. darlene and i had to rent a pickup truck and drive 200 miles each way to the warehouse of the dealer to get the tires and we were lucky they even had any. from what i understand they only make them at michelin once or twice a year so date codes can be up to a year old when you get them.
basement airs are so easy to take care of you can replace one for well under a grand and in minutes. i have basement airs. mine work fine. the only downside is for those of us who are taller than average. my coach has a nearly 7 1/2 foot ceiling everywhere but where the layered mirror decorations are in the front living area and it is over 7 foot there. the duct work for the roof airs take up 4-6 inches of ceiling height. hey i am looking for good things to say....ha
big difference going from 02 to one with steering tag in terms of price.
tom
(06-07-2018, 08:29 AM)Land Yacht Wrote: [ -> ]My 2000 model 2 slide coach had 315's on the front when I purchased it with 165,000 miles. So, those size tires served owners well for years. Also, the tires were well within the weight limit. However, I was not fully comfortable in all driving conditions with the handling, and did not like the roughness due to high air pressures. After upgrading to 365's, there is a noticeable improvement in ride and handling. If you purchase a coach with 315's, I would drive it a while to determine if you want the upgrade.
Concerning the basement vs roof airs. Once I installed the upgrade on my basement airs, I have been completely happy with performance and air flow. While roof airs would offer more basement space, I would just clutter it with unnecessary stuff I suspect. We are full timers and have plenty of storage now. One more thing, on my vintage of coach, to me, roof airs would cause more unsightly stuff on the roof. I prefer clean lines. The newer coaches have awnings on the roof instead of the side which hide roof airs. Bottom line, I would not shy away from a coach you like due to 315 tires or basement airs.
My .02 cents :-)
Just curious...what did you mean when you mention an "upgrade" to your basement A/C units?
The basement units have a weakness in the circuit board design. The upgrade replaces connectors and uses heavy duty contactors for the compressor circuits to cure the issue. Several very detailed threads about it on this forum