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I have been in the market for new batteries for several months now.  The coach came with Interstate FLA batteries which was a mixed bag of older and new batteries from the RV dealership.  I did not really like the FLAs so that eliminated debating the FLA.  That left AGM or Lipo...running the numbers and warranties of the current offerings I came up with the following;
  • Trogan Motive AGM - $650 each or $4,173, 2yr warranty
  • Crown AGM - $710 each or $4558, 3yr replacement warranty
  • Lifeline AGM - $668 each or $4,288 1yr replacement plus 2yr prorated
  • Oreilly's - $396 each or $2,548 (note: these batteries are made by Deka) 1yr warranty
  • Battle Born Lipo $979 or $5,874 for six, 10 yr warranty
So with that information I tossed around in my head the different manufactures and was just about to pull the trigger on the Oreillys AGMs. 

I came across this new manufacture of a 12.8, 100 AH Lipo battery that has a promotion going on for the first 350 batteries...https://fourvolt.com/products/lifepo4-battery....at $379 each or $2,274.....list price at $779.  Well that got my attention for some further investigation.  These batteries are made up of individual cells like that of BB batteries use however they are completely assembled in China with an internal BMS just like the BBs hence the cheaper price.  Knowing this and several other risks as follows;
  • New company
  • Bleeding edge manufacturing-not sure what they have done before...could have production issues to iron out.
  • waiting on 350 units sold to start a production run....June ship date.
  • Product support????
Some pluses;
  • Being a new company the units are going to be built as solid as they can to be able to compete....possibly even more so in order to gain a foothold in the market.
  • Free shipping
  • With the promotion price point they are cheaper than Oreilys....if they crap out on me in a couple years i'd be no worse than with Oreily's 
  • 10 yr warranty
Having said this, I pulled the trigger on six batteries....I may come to regret this decision but figured it was worth the risk to give lipo a try.  

The following emails are my conversation with 4 Volt;



Hi Stephen,

Thank you for your e-mail.

We recommend charging between 14.3V > 14.6V. Most standard chargers are able to provide this charge for fully recharging your battery.

It's only important to check that a lead-acid charger doesn't have a desulphating mode, and in case you should turn that off. Most GEL/AGM modes do not have this, but you should always check the documentation for the charger in question, just to make sure you are within the above mentioned voltage range.

We have recently posted an update on our homepage explaining the effect of the COVID-19 situation. For more info let me send you a direct link to our update here:

https://fourvolt.com/blogs/news/covid-19...pre-orders

To update since the above post, we have been pushed back a couple of weeks which means deliveries should start taking place during June.

We're currently waiting to close in the final pre-orders in the following 1-2 weeks (to reach the production target), then begin production, following distribution center delivery.

Once the production goes out to our distribution partner (Amazon MCF), delivery will take aprox. 2-5 days, but again - that would most likely be in June based on how things are currently looking. As soon as we are able to give a precise time-frame we will let all our customers know.

The highly discounted price is of course part of it still being pre-orders at this stage and prices are scheduled to go up soon as we move to production.

If you mistakenly made a pre-order and expected earlier delivery of your battery, I do apologize and I will be happy to cancel and refund your order immediately.

Please don't hesitate to get back in touch if you have any further questions.

Best regards,

Nicholas L.


Hi Stephen,



Thank you for your reply.



As for warranty concerns, we offer a 10 year warranty, in case of any defects you can return the battery to our distribution partner (or we will find the nearest possible alternative locally to you). We will then either replace/refund/repair depending on the issue. I can't give you an exact timeline, that would depend on the issue, but most likely we would simply replace it with a new model and figure out the defects on our end, unless there would be clearly visible damage caused by misuse.


First step would always be trying to identify and resolve the issue between us, if that fails then the above would follow. Naturally things that would be excluded would be: Damage due to improper installation, Environmental damage (exposure to extreme hot or cold temperatures, fire or freezing, or water damage), Damage caused by collision, Product that has been opened, modified or tampered with, under-sized for the application use.

I hope this gave you some more insight.




Please don't hesitate to get back in touch if you have any other questions.






Best regards,

Nicholas L.
very interesting. keep us updated

tom
Steve,

What are the limits of operating temps for the new batts? I think there is a thread on here that said something like 110f was the limit for some lithium batteries. Of course given the location of our battery bay, it could be a lot hotter that that. According to their website BB batts shut themselves down at 135f.

Also...for the warranty to be effective you have to be able to use it. Batteries are prohibitive to shipping so...I would factor that into the equation.

I have been happy with my BB batts. I have only talked to BB once for technical support and they seemed to be responsive.

Another thought is to determine how much battery capacity you need. The original house batteries were limited by the space available...not necessarily the best capacity. I ended up with 6 BB batts but usually drive from power ped to power ped with the genny running. In other words, I have more battery reserve than I need.

For what its worth.

Bill
Bill,
I have asked for an advanced copy of the manual/specifications sheet will share that when I get it.  The battery has a built in BMS similar to the BB.   Being new to market I would imagine they will be conservative on max operating temp....this is a pure guess on my part till I see the specs.

We generally operate much like you i.e. power ped to power ped with gen running in between.  With six 100ahr batteries we will be over capacity normally.  However we plan on a couple trips that will be boon docking this fall.

The warranty issue is a valid concern as shipping is expensive.  I am looking at this like our first top tier computer, with 4 meg of ram, we purchased then four years later it was a boat anchor.
This may be a good point in time to mention again that about 4 yrs. ago I picked up a tip on adding a couple oz. of mineral oil in each well, which I did. The batteries were all new. This seals to some degree the amount of evaporation that normally occurs. I have not had to add any water in all that time. Also, it keeps the trey and bay much cleaner! For what it's worth.
Bill,
Looks like these batteries have the following specs pertaining to temperatures...see attached spec sheet:
Discharge Temperature  -4 to 140 ºF (-20 to 60 ºC)
Charge Temperature  14 to 113 ºF (-10 to 45 ºC)
Storage Temperature 14 to 113 ºF (-10 to 45 ºC)

Concerning the BB shutting down at 135 degrees.  Have your ever reached 135 degrees?


[attachment=7542][attachment=7543]
Steve,

My BB batteries have never shut down as far as I know. With that said, I have never been in 110f plus temps with the coach. I am guessing that the integral BMS has a temperature regulator that will protect the batteries. You might not be able to charge the batts during the day if you are somewhere really hot. Your bay heaters will keep the batteries warm enough on cool days.

My guess is they have reverse engineered the BB batts and will be very similar in performance.

bill
Bill, Thanks for the information.  I am thinking the same thing as far as reverse engineering of the BB.
I am not endorsing nor am I condemning this particular manufacturer. I do think it is a well thought out calculated risk to try the batteries.

There are a handful of emerging companies that are producing Battleborn look alikes. It's just too lucrative of a market to think it wouldn't happen. First of all, just about all of the lithium battery production resides in China, especially the small cell variety that composes the internal makeup of the BBs and their knockoffs. Second, BMS production is also well known and common. After all every lithium battery device (phone) has one. BB was clever in marrying the internal BMS, to individual cell construction, to a common form factor battery case, to advertising it as 12V drop in. They appealed to anti Chinese distrust by saying it is assembled in the USA (from Chinese components).

As the American market becomes more familiar with the technology and as the price continues to move downward, more competitors will come on board. I see the Lithium market moving in two distinct and different paths. The 12V drop in will drop in price, and the second market which is the high voltage custom pack used if you want to run the AirCons off grid will continue to be astronomical in price.

About nine years ago, Forest took a similar risk in sourcing Lithium battery packs directly from China. The distributor he bought them from went under, but the batteries are still being made today by the original manufacturer. Nine years later, I am still happily using those batteries. Although they are not maintenance free as advertised. I just finished the first maintenance after installing them in our coach six years ago. I removed all the connections, cleaned them, and applied antioxidation grease. Hopefully they will be good for another six years.

Just my .02 on a rainy covid 19 shut in kind of morning.
Wow, has it been 9 years?
Yes it was a risk when I bought these and had very little confidence with the distributor. When I received the 4 cells 1 was leaking. Fortunately the dist. replaced it quickly at no cost to me. Glad to see the cells are still going strong. I tried to buy them back last year but got a quick NO!
One advantage and big reason I went with the Battleborns is they test each cell individually and match them up before they assemble them in the case.
Steve I hope you're satisfied with your batteries. I know you'll love the increased performance over lead acids. I'd have been tempted if these were available at these prices.
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