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Slide leak fixed or who is Squire Wipple? - Printable Version

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Slide leak fixed or who is Squire Wipple? - bikestuff - 01-14-2018

Gang,

My No 1. slide has given me ample reasons to expand my vocabulary.  Problems have been multiple bearing failures, rotted ceiling, and one "waterfall event" where water actually poured into the coach.  After some serious troubleshooting it became clear what the problem was.

My slide is really long, and "sags" in the middle.  This sag means that the bladder seal cannot reach down to the middle of the slide and water can just run in.  These pics are of the top of the slide with the slide extended (valance removed).
             

Richard Entrekin helped me study the leak and we were able to determine that the hook that is designed to lift the middle of the slide ceiling when the room is extended was not engaging in the slot in the coach frame.  (Newell had previously beefed up the metal bar that holds the hook, but now the hook was hitting the wall instead of the slot).

Note:  if you have not looked closely at the top of your slide this description will not make sense.  If you are wondering about your slide PM me and I will explain more.

We decided to build a structure like a suspension bridge...specifically a Bowstring Truss Arch to help support the middle of the slide.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truss_bridge.   Our first experiment was to modify the steel bar that Newell had previously beefed up and add a long bar to the top and some supports.  It was ugly, it was heavy...but it worked. It removed about 3/4" of a bow with a 50 lb weight suspended in the middle.  

The first prototype is the one on the right.  The final version is on the left
   

For the final version, we scrapped the idea of using the heavy steel 1x1" tube that was previously used.  Instead we used 1x1 thin-walled steel tube along with a suspension system using rod steel.  This took a lot of weight from the structure but added strength.  We ended up with about the same strength but removed about 20lbs of weight.  We also investigated rebuilding the valence structure to remove weight but decided that it was time to test the beer Richard had been brewing.  

Once we put the room back together, we found that the "hook" that pulls up the middle of the room was now hitting the slot in the frame about 1/2" higher.  This allowed it to to its job properly.  (Before it was hitting the wall and just bending the room inward)

I have now moved the coach and tested the room and it seals well.  In fact the entire room structure seems far more rigid!

DO YOU HAVE THIS PROBLEM?  The easiest way to diagnose this problem is to darken the inside of the coach on a bright day.  If you can see light coming in on the top side of the slide....you could have this problem.  


Ps.  Squire Wipple was the inventor of the bow-arch truss.


RE: Slide leak fixed or who is Squire Wipple? - Richard - 01-15-2018

There were also some attachment concerns with the original support that was installed along the top of the slide. Although a few rivnuts had been installed in the slide structure, the holes for the additional support were way oversized. Meaning the original added support was free to slip about if the throughbolts loosened. Also the rivnuts and bolts did not run the length the slide. Sheet metal screws had been used. They of course had wallowed out the holes in the aluminum structure of the slide.

We added additional rivnuts, and drilled the attachment holes in the new support beam to just fit the 5/16 throughbolts.


RE: Slide leak fixed or who is Squire Wipple? - folivier - 01-15-2018

Glad y'all were able to engineer a solution to this problem. I had the same problem with my '98 and had Newell fix it. Unfortunately their solution was to use larger sheet metal screws to attach the bar. While it did work I don't think it would have held up.
Nice job!


RE: Slide leak fixed or who is Squire Wipple? - pestes - 01-15-2018

Nice job! I'm curious if there are any pictures of the new support attached to the slide.


RE: Slide leak fixed or who is Squire Wipple? - bikestuff - 01-16-2018

Paul,

I looked but we totally missed getting pics of the new support installed. Sorry! If you have questions, please feel free to ask.

The major differences of between factory and what we ended up with were:
1) lighter
2) stronger. (the arch truss really is very strong)
3) factory had screws originally, after Newell added support there were some riv-nuts. holding the support. After...we added several riv-nuts.
4) The head of the bolts that go in the riv-nuts were not counter-sunk.

bill


RE: Slide leak fixed or who is Squire Wipple? - Richard - 01-16-2018

Paul,

If you will look at the picture of the two support rails. The prototype was a hot mess that we fab using the original support and making a truss. Ugly but it proved the point. If you look carefully at that mess, you will see rather large holes in the square tubing. We don't know why Newell did it that way. The large holes were on both sides. So the 5/16 bolt had to have a washer to keep from going through the hole. The washer was free to slip around inside the hole. That made it real tough for the support to rigidly attach to the aluminum in the slide out.

The truss was not our original plan. We ordered, or so we thought, a piece of aluminum tubing 2 1/2 by 1 1/4 that would just fit in the available space. After waiting a week, a follow up call to the supplier revealed the tubing was not coming any time soon. Therefore we went in a different direction and made a solution with the supplies we could obtain locally. I think the aluminum tubing would have been a more elegant, and certainly less work, solution. But you can't use what you don't have. For future readers, if you decide to go the aluminum tubing route, plan carefully how you will attach the hook.

One of things that we discovered that I just didn't think about was how much force the slide seal exerts on the top of the slide. The hook is an absolute necessity to keep the roof from deflecting. Bill's roof is approximately 144 inches long, The slide seal has a minimum of 1 inch width at it's contact point. So that's 144 square inches of contact. At a conservative slide seal pressure of 10 psig, the slide seal exerts 1140 pounds force on the roof of the slide. We discovered that while trying to unbend the roof to mark the drill holes. It wouldn't budge upward. Until we released the pressure on the slide seal and then we could move the slide ceiling upward to install the brace with a level ceiling.


RE: Slide leak fixed or who is Squire Wipple? - bikestuff - 01-23-2018

Gurus,

Well the water leak fix did NOT work ... or it did not fix all the problems.  We got a heavy wet snow in Auburn, Alabama and after the roads cleared, I was able to check on the coach.  At first it seemed that the leak fix worked, but as I looked more closely, I could tell water had gotten in the coach.  Then I happened to look at the ceiling of the slide.  It had a bulge under the vinyl where water had pooled.  I poked a small hole in the vinyl and let almost a gallon of water out.  The material resumed its original shape with no apparent harm done.  Oh well.

When Richard and I were working on the slide we noticed that the slide seal had one section that appeared to be slightly smaller than the rest of the seal.  Our plan was to a water test, but we ran out of time and did not accomplish that.

So, I got on ladder and got ready to do a leak test when I realized that the entire slide seal is about to fail.   See attached pictures of the slide seal on top of my number one slide.

The bottom and sides of all my seals are in great shape.  Nice flexible rubber with no obvious signs of degradation.

To recap the current situation.
1).  The slide is much stronger with very little flex in the middle.  The support hook engages every time I extend slide.
2).  There is no obvious light visible under the seal, but...
3).  The water leak is still here.

My plan is to go to Newel and get them to replace the slide seal.  I will ask them to do a water test with the valance removed and see if we can learn where the water is coming from.   I suspect that the seal has failed in such a way as to let water get past.

I am encouraged that we have found and fixed real problems.  Obviously, I am discouraged about the fact that the leak is still here.

Cheers,
bill

ps.  Do yourself a favor and inspect your slide seals...not just the sides and bottom, but also the top.


RE: Slide leak fixed or who is Squire Wipple? - folivier - 01-23-2018

Bill, do you have a slide topper? Looks like sun exposure?


RE: Slide leak fixed or who is Squire Wipple? - rheavn - 01-23-2018

Bill,
Have you eliminated all other possibilities for water penetration, such as seams?


RE: Slide leak fixed or who is Squire Wipple? - bikestuff - 01-23-2018

Steve,

I have been fixing the issues as I have discovered them. The slide sag / hook issue was a real problem that is now fixed...but since I have a lot of water still coming in...I still have issues.

Since the seal has degraded, it needs to be fixed. It is original to the coach. 15 years seems like a fair lifespan for an exposed piece of rubber.

But I am also thinking there may be other issues.

My slide has two seams on the top and of course has a seam all the way around where the skin attaches. I have looked at these seams in the past, but will take a much better look now.

Forest, I do not have slide toppers. I know they would help some of these issues, but carry their own sorts of challenges.

This fight with the slide has gotten personal..The slide thinks it will win, but I am tenacious and will eventually win. I just need to convince the slide that it is in its best interest to start acting right.