05-28-2015, 07:03 AM
our first trip in the coach in a while has been interesting. we got it all ready, hopped in and left the house at 730am monday morning headed towards the ralley. 1st stop was to be las vegas to see our son scott there. 250 mile short jaunt. we planned on stopping halfway at speedco to get the series 60 oil changed.
coach ran great. got off I40 before kingman to get some fuel and get the oil changed at SPEEDCO. as i excited the freeway the coach starting leaning dramatically so much so that the drivers side front and rear tires were rubbing. (thankfully only slightly and only during the turn). as i got into the truck stop at the pumps, the coach was almost totally down on the drivers side and overextended high on the passenger side rear.
i filled up with fuel and slowly drove over to speedco (about a 1/4 mile away) and had the engine serviced. after being there at speedco for 7 hours and no solution but a better understanding of the problem, we headed over to a nice rv park that was adjacent to all of this and set up, had a nice chinese dinner darlene made and watched america ninja warriors. btw, it is nice being retired and not having to stress about time. besides there is nothing me, steve, richard, all of you and a credit card cant fix in time. ha
here is what the symptoms are. btw, i have spent hours on the phone with richard and steve bare going over scenarios. and trying things. they really know this air system. i kinda do now as well. ha
after i have manually lowered the coach on all 4 sides using the level system, now put the coach In travel mode and the engine running in High Idle, all 4 corners start raising to ride height. the front settles in, the drivers side settles in, the rear passenger side gets to ride height, the ride height valve arm is horizontal and it shuts the air off, then from somewhere that side continues to raise and as it does, the ride height valve starts to release air and now the supply pressure is barely keeping up with air going in and air being release. it will continue to raise until it is fully extended. in low idle, the compressor cannot keep up and supply pressure drops until it is not strong enough to put air in anymore.
if i turn the engine off, turn the key back to on and the coach is in travel mode, the passenger side rear slowly drops to ride height and stays. air pressure drops to 80 and holds steady.
if i start the engine back up, on high idle, then the rear passenger side overextends again.
i could put the coach in leveling mode and drop it all the way down and it would stay or raise it all the way up and it would stay.
we thought it must be a ride control valve leaking through internally. so with the incredible help of some volunteers at speedco, the ride height valve got changed. they helped out of the goodness of their hearts because it is not something they do. we took the two drive wheels off, changed the valve (i had a new spare, and in fact had already changed all three of them). my coach uses what newell told me was the newer style valves. they are barksdale universal valves so you can configure them for either side. they are black pastic square about 3 inches square.
so....that didnt fix it. btw, speedco had the coolest torque wrench for doing the lug nuts. a computer controlled unit on a cart. they set it once, do all the lugs and it gives you a print out. really awesome. richard, i think you should buy me one for my next birthday. i will give you my lowly 600 ft lb hand torque wrench in exchange.
so thanks to the schematic of the ride height system for air that steve and richard did, the 3 of us talked through it a bunch of times....hey i am a slow learner...
the symptoms were a little inconsistent,which made it harder because it would always raise up to max on the rear passenger, but sometimes would raise up to travel on the drivers side rear and sometimes not. in retrospect, it was because all available air was going to the rear passenger side.
the ride height valve supplys air to the drive axle 2 air bags and the 1 tag bag. it would be exhausting as it raised too high, so the valve was working and not leaking through.
3 things can cause that side to raise.
1. ride height valve not adjusted right or leaking through. (changed it and same symptoms so that was not it)
2. tag bag overextending by being wrongly inflated by the valve that allows you to put more or less pressure on the tag axle. but all of us were convinced that single tag bag could not overpower the two bigger drive axle bags.
3. the leveling system right rear RAISE solenoid letting air through it when it should be closed. that could happen if the valve was leaking by or if it was getting energized improperly when in travel mode.
so.....i tested to see if it was energized and causing the issue two different ways. by holding a small piece of metal on the end of the solenoid to see if it was magnetized. it was not. just to be sure i unplugged the solenoid and nothing changed.
i also had some spare solenoids, so steve said just to swap that RAISE solenoid out. I did and it fixed it. it made perfect sense that this fixed it, but....the one piece that didnt match up is that it didnt seem to leak through when in Leveling mode. but....i dont care why, after a whole day of troubleshooting it, it was fixed and we were off.
we drove to las vegas and it was fine and 360 miles yesterday and it was fine.
jerry, a tech at newell talked me through it as well, and he was impressed at how much knowledge our collective here on the forum had on the system and what to try and do.
so...a big shout out of thanks to richard and steve, both of which spent a ton of time talking it all through with me. and to jerry at newell who was so willing to help as well. he basically confirmed what we had already surmised.
i guess there are several key learnings here from this. I was stranded and couldnt go anywhere. i could have called a mobile technician, spend a grand or two having him learn our system and maybe or maybe not fix it. take a day and do it my self with the help of the forum members was the best choice. i am retired and was not in a rush and didnt get stressed once or even a little by it. i viewed it as a learning experience and a chance to talk to my buddies.
the total cost of the fix was 20 bucks. plus the cost of the solenoid (which i got for like 20 bucks). and a day of my time.
this is an amazing bunch of friends and members here at newellgurus. i could NEVER have thought gurus would turn into what it is today when i started it 3 years ago. thank you to all of you.
the other thing here learned once again (and i will probably keep learning it). is the maybe try the easy possibilities first. the RAISE solenoid was a 15 mintue thing and easily gotten to in the engine bay. the ride height valve is not an easy change. but...it did make sense that it was likely the first choice.
ok......enough babbling from me. darlene is sleeping in, it is 65 degrees at whiskey flats, nevada and i have a few things to do before getting ready to leave and drive 2 hours to carson city to have brunch at In N Out with Clarke and Elaine.
Good time.
later
tom
coach ran great. got off I40 before kingman to get some fuel and get the oil changed at SPEEDCO. as i excited the freeway the coach starting leaning dramatically so much so that the drivers side front and rear tires were rubbing. (thankfully only slightly and only during the turn). as i got into the truck stop at the pumps, the coach was almost totally down on the drivers side and overextended high on the passenger side rear.
i filled up with fuel and slowly drove over to speedco (about a 1/4 mile away) and had the engine serviced. after being there at speedco for 7 hours and no solution but a better understanding of the problem, we headed over to a nice rv park that was adjacent to all of this and set up, had a nice chinese dinner darlene made and watched america ninja warriors. btw, it is nice being retired and not having to stress about time. besides there is nothing me, steve, richard, all of you and a credit card cant fix in time. ha
here is what the symptoms are. btw, i have spent hours on the phone with richard and steve bare going over scenarios. and trying things. they really know this air system. i kinda do now as well. ha
after i have manually lowered the coach on all 4 sides using the level system, now put the coach In travel mode and the engine running in High Idle, all 4 corners start raising to ride height. the front settles in, the drivers side settles in, the rear passenger side gets to ride height, the ride height valve arm is horizontal and it shuts the air off, then from somewhere that side continues to raise and as it does, the ride height valve starts to release air and now the supply pressure is barely keeping up with air going in and air being release. it will continue to raise until it is fully extended. in low idle, the compressor cannot keep up and supply pressure drops until it is not strong enough to put air in anymore.
if i turn the engine off, turn the key back to on and the coach is in travel mode, the passenger side rear slowly drops to ride height and stays. air pressure drops to 80 and holds steady.
if i start the engine back up, on high idle, then the rear passenger side overextends again.
i could put the coach in leveling mode and drop it all the way down and it would stay or raise it all the way up and it would stay.
we thought it must be a ride control valve leaking through internally. so with the incredible help of some volunteers at speedco, the ride height valve got changed. they helped out of the goodness of their hearts because it is not something they do. we took the two drive wheels off, changed the valve (i had a new spare, and in fact had already changed all three of them). my coach uses what newell told me was the newer style valves. they are barksdale universal valves so you can configure them for either side. they are black pastic square about 3 inches square.
so....that didnt fix it. btw, speedco had the coolest torque wrench for doing the lug nuts. a computer controlled unit on a cart. they set it once, do all the lugs and it gives you a print out. really awesome. richard, i think you should buy me one for my next birthday. i will give you my lowly 600 ft lb hand torque wrench in exchange.
so thanks to the schematic of the ride height system for air that steve and richard did, the 3 of us talked through it a bunch of times....hey i am a slow learner...
the symptoms were a little inconsistent,which made it harder because it would always raise up to max on the rear passenger, but sometimes would raise up to travel on the drivers side rear and sometimes not. in retrospect, it was because all available air was going to the rear passenger side.
the ride height valve supplys air to the drive axle 2 air bags and the 1 tag bag. it would be exhausting as it raised too high, so the valve was working and not leaking through.
3 things can cause that side to raise.
1. ride height valve not adjusted right or leaking through. (changed it and same symptoms so that was not it)
2. tag bag overextending by being wrongly inflated by the valve that allows you to put more or less pressure on the tag axle. but all of us were convinced that single tag bag could not overpower the two bigger drive axle bags.
3. the leveling system right rear RAISE solenoid letting air through it when it should be closed. that could happen if the valve was leaking by or if it was getting energized improperly when in travel mode.
so.....i tested to see if it was energized and causing the issue two different ways. by holding a small piece of metal on the end of the solenoid to see if it was magnetized. it was not. just to be sure i unplugged the solenoid and nothing changed.
i also had some spare solenoids, so steve said just to swap that RAISE solenoid out. I did and it fixed it. it made perfect sense that this fixed it, but....the one piece that didnt match up is that it didnt seem to leak through when in Leveling mode. but....i dont care why, after a whole day of troubleshooting it, it was fixed and we were off.
we drove to las vegas and it was fine and 360 miles yesterday and it was fine.
jerry, a tech at newell talked me through it as well, and he was impressed at how much knowledge our collective here on the forum had on the system and what to try and do.
so...a big shout out of thanks to richard and steve, both of which spent a ton of time talking it all through with me. and to jerry at newell who was so willing to help as well. he basically confirmed what we had already surmised.
i guess there are several key learnings here from this. I was stranded and couldnt go anywhere. i could have called a mobile technician, spend a grand or two having him learn our system and maybe or maybe not fix it. take a day and do it my self with the help of the forum members was the best choice. i am retired and was not in a rush and didnt get stressed once or even a little by it. i viewed it as a learning experience and a chance to talk to my buddies.
the total cost of the fix was 20 bucks. plus the cost of the solenoid (which i got for like 20 bucks). and a day of my time.
this is an amazing bunch of friends and members here at newellgurus. i could NEVER have thought gurus would turn into what it is today when i started it 3 years ago. thank you to all of you.
the other thing here learned once again (and i will probably keep learning it). is the maybe try the easy possibilities first. the RAISE solenoid was a 15 mintue thing and easily gotten to in the engine bay. the ride height valve is not an easy change. but...it did make sense that it was likely the first choice.
ok......enough babbling from me. darlene is sleeping in, it is 65 degrees at whiskey flats, nevada and i have a few things to do before getting ready to leave and drive 2 hours to carson city to have brunch at In N Out with Clarke and Elaine.
Good time.
later
tom