Series 60 Dead on road side, FIXED

Series 60 Dead on road side, FIXED - Printable Version

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Series 60 Dead on road side, FIXED - Richard - 08-19-2022

Well, ignore some of the DDEC stuff below. My curiosity got the better of me today and I plugged the original reflashed DDEC III into the engine, and it fired right up. I plain missed the diagnosis. In hindsight trying to unravel this mystery, I now think that when the fuel tube broke, the engine completely emptied the fuel filter canister, the fuel lines, the fuel pump, and the injectors. I based my faulty DDEC diagnosis on the fact that diesel was not moving out of the fuel filter, and there was no diesel smoke or smell at the exhaust. I am not beating my self up too bad. Given the facts I had at the time, I probably would have done the same thing all over again. On the bright side, I now have a programmed DDEC spare.
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Woo wee, what an experience. I will do this in installments.

Thursday, Aug 11, Rhonda and I were traveling from Richfield UT to Grand Junction Co on I 70 when the coach died on 6% grade uphill. I barely made it off the road, and the coach was right on the white line. Unless you have driven this stretch of I 70, you do not realize these are the hinterlands.

In summary, there were two serious issues that caused the engine to stop. Issue 1 was the DDEC III computer lost it’s mind. Issue 2 was the fuel pick up tube broke inside the fuel tank.

It took five days, two trips to Grand Junction, two DDEC computers, two trips to Richfield, and enough plumbing fittings for small subdivision to get us off the freeway.

I will post the details, the fixes, and lessons I learned in this ordeal below.

RE: Series 60 Dead on road side, FIXED - Richard - 08-19-2022

Thursday-As stated the coach died with no warning while going up hill around mid day. I had just looked at the gauges because we were climbing 6% for over 7 miles in 90 degree temp. I commented to Rhonda how well the coach was running. That turned out to be my first mistake.

The coach starts to slow and by the time I realize the engine is not running, I barely have time to clear the white line. The coach will remain in this position until Sunday.

My first thoughts were plugged fuel filter. Looking at the bowl I did not see the classic symptom of fuel up to the top of the filter. I didn’t see any fuel at all. But focusing on the most likely cause, I changed the filter. After multiple priming attempts, and multiple attempts at cranking, it is clear the engine is not letting any fuel in. No white smoke at the exhaust, no diesel smell at the exhaust, and the fuel level in the bowl does not move while cranking.

I now suspect a DDEC issue of some sort for two reasons. Last year I had a no start in a campground just like this, that I sort of figured out was the DDEC relay in the passenger foot well. And for the last month we have been getting a Non Volatile Checksum Error on the Prodriver and VMSPc. Interweb research on this error said everything from ran mine that way for years to EEK! DDEC is dying replace immediately.

I spend an hour testing every fuse and circuit that feeds the DDEC. All are good. Lesson 1.. This was learned later, but this is the point to bring it in. If you suspect DDEC power issues, don’t waste hours chasing fuses. Unplug the two connectors on the right side of the DDEC. On the large one, it will be clear the red wires are positive and the black wires are negative. The reds should show 12V to the blacks if the key is on. On the 30 pin connector, B3, second row from bottom, pink wire, should also show 12V. If you have 12V on those inputs, don’t waste time with checking any further.

It’s now 2:30. I call the local places, only 40 miles away. Many don’t answer. The ones that do don’t have a DDEC or don’t know what one is. Sigh. I found a shop in Grand Junction that says they have them and they can program them. OK, it’s 180 miles away, but here we come. First, thank you Elon Musk and Starlink
or the phone calls could not have been made. Second, the speed limit in Utah is 80. You just won’t believe how fast an old Subaru Outback will go when leaned on.

Get to the shop at 5:01, but they are still there. Except they don’t have a DDEC III, they only have DDEC IVs and there is no way the box can be programmed before Friday because the master program must come from Detroit Diesel. They are closed for the day.

Rhonda and I get a room and try to sleep.

RE: Series 60 Dead on road side, FIXED - Richard - 08-19-2022

Friday

The research on the interweb says that many times a reflash of the faulty computer will restore it’s brains. Here is where it gets murky. Apparently, you can program a DDEC IV with the parameters used for the DDEC III, if you work with Detroit Diesel to make the change in their master data base. But once the change is made, they will not go back and allow you to program a DDEC III for that engine. This complicates the day since the only order that will work is reflash the existing DDEC III, wait for DD to change the master data base, then flash the IV.

Long story, only the DDEC III is available by 3 pm, and the shop says no way the IV will be ready before Monday.

So we drive 180 miles back to the coach to see if the reflashed DDEC III will crank. It will not.

We spend the night in a motel in Salina UT, closest town, only 25 miles away.

I start to think about getting a tow the next morning to get the coach off the road.

RE: Series 60 Dead on road side, FIXED - Richard - 08-19-2022

Saturday

While guzzling coffee and looking for tow outfit that can tow the coach without destroying it, and figuring out where to tow it to, I get a text from the shop in Grand Junction that the DDEC IV is ready.

Well, let’s pop over and get it. 400 miles later we are back in the coach with the new DDEC IV computer.

The engine cranks on first try. Woo Hoo !
It runs 10 seconds, starts to stumble, and dies. Oh NO !

Reprime the fuel filter, and the same thing happens.
Do this about ten times with the same result. After all I haven’t heard the engineers definition of insanity.

A local farmer, Derek Beagley, is the first person to stop in 3 days. He offers to lend me his pickup with a transfer tank to fill my tank. His idea is air is entering the system due to the extreme slide slope the coach is parked on. He also observes that MASSIVE air bubbles are entering the fuel filter bowl originating above the fuel inlet. HMMMMMMMMM.

I rig a direct hose from a partial 5 gallon jug of diesel to the fuel filter. It runs great, but uses fuel at an alarming rate, because the excess supply is going into the tank and not back into the jug. I try anyway because I am desperate to get the coach more than 1 inch off the white line. The fuel lasts long enough to get us to a crossover and head down the mountain. I am able to get two feet off the white line before it dies.

I did try a Jed Clampett fix and run a line from the fuel fill port and the inlet to the fuel. I did not have the proper fittings and hose on hand. What I had had small leaks. The engine would idle, but any speed increase would suck air and it would croak.

It’s almost dark, Rhonda’s sanity prevails, and we abandon ship for the third night.

RE: Series 60 Dead on road side, FIXED - Richard - 08-19-2022

Sunday,

I arm myself with a second 5 gallon can of diesel, some different hoses, and pipe fittings. We return with 10 gallons and resolve. The coach cranks and I am able to get 4 miles downhill to an exit, that fortuitously has a level gravel parking space.

Now I can safely work on the driver side of the coach. Removing the shiny vanity panel covering the tank allows me to access the fuel hose entering the tank. It’s about 14 inches in, and there is only about 4 inches space between the top of the tank and the basement ceiling above it. I was extremely lucky in that some of the tools I carry are large crow’s feet wrenches used to loosen the air fittings on the air bags. One of them fit the fitting on the fuel line. No way was a regular wrench going to work.

Using a blow off gun combined with a rubber stopper drilled out for the nozzle, I was able to pressurize the fuel line. I suspected it was stopped up or collapsed. Nope. Air blew right through it, and gave the car a diesel shower.

I put the air on the tank fitting expecting to hear gurgling. Nope. Massive air into the tank, no bubbling at all. I removed the elbow on top of the tank and discovered the fuel pick up tube had fractured at the fitting and fallen into the tank. Das is nicht gud.

You can see where the copper tube has fractured inside the brass fitting.

It’s getting late, but we can safely sleep in the coach tonight. Oh yeah. I only put a 1/4 tank of fresh water in when we left to start the mountain section. We are out of water. We have bottled drinking water, but no water for showers. Rhonda is not fond of my diesel aftershave. GoJo only goes so far.

RE: Series 60 Dead on road side, FIXED - Richard - 08-19-2022

Monday.

We return to Richfield. I raid the NAPA, Home Depot, and ACE for the parts for four potential solutions.

We return to the coach around noon. Now, I know it’s the Utah desert but it POURS rain for three hours. I can’ complain, farmers like Derek need the rain. Maybe it was his karma for stopping to help us.

The puzzle is complicated. I have to find an airtight and secure way to attach a fill tube to the existing elbow. I have to find some sort of fill tube solution that will bend around a 4 inch radius to go into the tank but straighten enough to reach the bottom of the tank. Everything below the elbow has to fit through a 3/4 inch NPT hole.

I won’t go into all the possibilities since the first one worked.

I used a 3/8 NPT tap and tapped threads on the inside of the elbow. I threaded a long nipple into the inside of the elbow. I used the yellow corrugated tubing commonly used to hook up gas appliances. I cobbled some fittings to get it all to mate. But the fittings were slightly too large to go through the hole. I used a side grinder to reduce the size of the fittings. By using the easily bendable tubing I could snake it around the radius to clear the ceiling, but straighten the last inch going into the tank to try to have a reasonably straight tube.

After a dry fit, I seal all the connections with Rectorseal, and then for insurance, I liberally apply some JBWeld quick to the fittings that could potentially unscrew or leak.

Put it all together, prime the fuel filter., and VROOM !!

Oh my, five days of high anxiety are over. We head down the mountain towards civilization just to make sure. In 25 miles we reach a truck fuel stop where we fill with fuel and water. Back towards Grand Junction and we overnite at the Salt Wash Overlook. It’s an absolutely gorgeous mountaintop rest area looking over the colorful Utah mountain desert.

RE: Series 60 Dead on road side, FIXED - Richard - 08-19-2022

Lessons:

Run with at least 1/2 tank of water. Even in the mountains.
If you get Non Volatile Check Sum error. Get the DDEC replaced ASAP.
(Since our son is a hotshot computer coder, let me translate that message into plain English) Non Volatile means something that is NOT supposed to change. Check Sum means the computer code is corrupted, kind of like my own brain. So the really important instructions in the computer are scrambled.
If you are not off the road in the first four hours, get a tow. I was overconfident in my ability to fix it.
If you are on the road, disconnect the car, back it up 150 feet and turn on the flashers. Let them hit the car, not you.
I am a fan of “when you hear hoof beats think horses, not zebras” . That usually works, but in this case in 15 years of Newell forum stalking, I have NEVER heard of a fuel pick up tube fracturing. In this case the problem turned out to be albino Pygmy Unicorns not horses.

Last and most valuable lesson of all. Marry the right woman. Rhonda was perfect. She never asked my unanswerable questions. She was patient. She was adamant when I might have jeopardized my own safety. And she was a fantastic sounding board when I needed to talk about strategy.

The last issue is which problem came first? Fuel pick up tube or computer. I think it was the fuel tube for one reason. The fuel bowl was empty when the coach first stopped. If the computer had died first, there would have still been fuel in the bowl .

Of course, when we return home, the tank will come out and a truly robust fuel pick up tube will be installed.

And a programmed DDEC IV computer and a programmed Allison computer are going in the spares collection.

RE: Series 60 Dead on road side, FIXED - HoosierDaddy - 08-19-2022

Thank you, Richard for this post. When I saw that the fuel pick up tube had broke (on Rhonda's FB post) I was trying to ....1 figure out how in the world THAT could happen . And 2 How in the world do u repair w/o removing the tank??? The gas line solution is brilliant.....!!!

RE: Series 60 Dead on road side, FIXED - austinswalk - 08-19-2022

Wow! That was quite an ordeal, glad you guys are road bound and safe for sure. Great advice and information, Thanks so much for sharing as over the last ten years between you, many others and being able to hang with the service guys at at Newell i was able to make 3 different repairs while on a 11 month trips, that all especially one would have left us stuck and once on the side of the road possibly for days in the middle of nowhere California on a Friday of course. I have no where near the mechanical ability that you have but have learned so much from all the information gathered from all you guys. So greatful the rest of your trip will be amazing hopefully! Amy my wife much like yours is very patient king and encouraging thank God! I to may need to carry a couple of the spares you mentioned for our coach 707 (2004)

RE: Series 60 Dead on road side, FIXED - MrE - 08-19-2022

Wow, someone (almost everyone) with lesser abilities would have been in for some very expensive repairs and an extended time out of service. Pretty sure everyone on the forum would agree you should change your user name to MacGyver.

Seems we've had a few failures of DDEC ECMs reported recently. Seems the previous owners of @"BusNit"'s coach paid a premium for theirs. I bought a programmer for my Cummins ISM for not very much money, does anyone on the forum have a DDEC programmer?