02-25-2023, 06:29 PM
So Gurus, I have a good one that Newell never heard of......
I was in the middle of trying to run some electrical wires for the Lithium battery upgrade, and the first step was to put out the rear slide to see if there was a location that I could fish some wires near the cove moulding at the ceiling. I pushed the extend button on the rear slide, and got no movement. I was kind of sad because I have not had any issues with the slide operation. I went out to the pump while my wife Sara hit the button, and the hydraulic pump did not sound like it was under any load and was free spinning. I checked the fluid, and it was dry.
After refilling the hydraulic pump reservoir, I went back in the coach to try again. I hit the extend button for a maximum of a total of 30 seconds in a few bursts. The reservoir was empty again. I looked for leaking that I surely had, but I could not find any leak inside or outside the coach. I subsequently went to lunch, and the dextron III magically appeared under and on the side of the coach in both front wheel wells and some in the center between the front wheel wells. I was puzzled because I did not hit the front slide button at all.
I found out through researching on this site that looking at the schematics provided by others that any time the pump is on there are several circuits that have pressure in them both front and back independent of which slide you are trying to move. Surprise, but this is as designed.
The fun has begun and I have started on the work. Here is a summary of what I found out to remove for rebuilding the cylinders. I plan on rebuilding all of them, they have a few years on them and likely the seals have hardened and will start to have problems. I would rather rebuild them now, as preventative maintenance instead of having leaks every now and again in the most inopportune times....
To get the front slide front extend/retract cylinder out, there are access panels in both front wheel wells that are screwed in. On the drivers side, the access panel is just above the top of the tire nearest the center of the coach wheel well. On the passenger side, the access panel is just above the top of the tire near the outside of the coach. The panels are approximately 10-12" rectangular. On my coach, there is 2 access panels on the passenger side. A second access panel was cut directly on the passenger side directly below the front hydraulic cylinder most of the way to the inside of the wheel well and is about 8" wide. I think this may not be "stock" as the cylinder has a newer s/n than coaches that were build a few years after mine (Mr. Whites). I did not have to remove the passenger side tire, but the drivers side had to be removed to access the cylinder rod retaining bolt.
To get at the vertical flat head allen bolt, the slide needs to be extended almost fully. I did not extend the slide fully, I only extended it enough to get at the vertical allen bolt in the access panel. To extend the front slide, there is 2 actuators. For re-assembly I was told after the fact that I should have extended the room fully, but I was afraid to push the room out onto the driveway. It just might be harder to adjust, I guess I will find out. The rear actuator is accessible in the ceiling of the bays by removing the insulation board by cutting at the metal tape neatly at the steel supports and pulling off at the velcro that is stuck to the outermost metal frame.
If you can, if you have only minor leaking, you could use the normal extension method to get the slide out. I could not because of the massive leak I had on the front cylinder retract side. I needed to use a hand pump. To extend a functioning cylinder you need to install a "T" on the extension and retract hose connections of the cylinder. I would do this at the cylinder making sure to identify all hoses prior to disconnecting anything. This was a one of several tips from Richard and Tom. On my non-functioning leaky cylinder, I capped the retract side of the cylinder and only connected the hose to extend fitting.
Prior to actually extending the slide, make sure that the air bladder seal is deflated. I would add a ball valve upstream of the regulator in the bay under the slide. Use the key switch on the slide control to release all pressure, you do not want to roll the seal.
In order for the slide to stay in alignment and not rub on the sides of the coach, I could only have the slide with a maximum of 1" of misalignment from front to back. Luckily my pump had a valve that allowed me to easily switch between front and aft actuation, I would recommend this to eliminate the hooking up and disconnecting your hoses multiple times, it would be very messy. Sometimes when I pumped the front cylinder, the back side of the slide would also come out some (and visa-versa). Have a helper measure while you pump unless you want to walk miles.
The pressure in the pump to get the slide to move was 1000psi or less. Once sliding I am guessing the pressure was about half to keep it moving.
After the vertical flat head allen head bolt was reachable on the drivers side, I removed the bolt. To get the cylinder out, it has to be fully (or almost fully) retracted. I tried several things. First I tried to use the hand hydraulic pump on the retract side of the cylinder. This did nothing but leak, but please know that the block on the end of the cylinder did not start flowing until I reached about 1000psi. I am guessing it is because of the check valve inside does not flow. Next I tried to use a venturi vacuum evacuator hooked up to the extend side of the cylinder with the retract side open to atmosphere. Again no luck in movement. Then I removed the large nut on the cap end of the cylinder in the passenger wheel well and pushed it out of the bracket it was in. Then I put the flat head bolt back in the hole (of course it did not line up but I only wanted a stop block to push against) and wedged a piece of wood to keep it in position. I then opened both sides of the fittings of the cylinder and pushed against the cylinder by hand and surprise, the cylinder retracted. To retract it fully I used and ratchet extension with a socket on the end to guide it on the cylinder cap end bolt and pushed until the piston bottomed out. Prior to pushing, I threaded some bailing wire in the hose clamp that was existing on the cylinder and wired it shut. I then pulled on the wire to retrieve the cylinder from the hole it was in. I was then able to get the cylinder out of the coach easily. No need to remove the tire on the passenger side. I jacked the coach up so that I could easily reach between the tire and the wheel flare to work. Of course, put the coach on jack stands.....
I used about a roll of paper towels to sop up the leaky fluid as best as I could. I also forgot to mention this is the first job so far that has drawn blood on the coach.
When out of the coach the leak was obvious. I imagined it was a blown seal, a damaged fitting, or a blown tube that fed the retract side of the cylinder. I was wrong on all three guesses. The block on the end of the cylinder failed so it will have to be replaced.
I have a line on a complete cylinder that I can get and plan on using that one. Does anyone have the block on the end of the cylinder that is in good shape? I would be interested in trying to rebuild this cylinder if I can get that part of the assembly as well as getting the threads out of this cylinder.
I was in the middle of trying to run some electrical wires for the Lithium battery upgrade, and the first step was to put out the rear slide to see if there was a location that I could fish some wires near the cove moulding at the ceiling. I pushed the extend button on the rear slide, and got no movement. I was kind of sad because I have not had any issues with the slide operation. I went out to the pump while my wife Sara hit the button, and the hydraulic pump did not sound like it was under any load and was free spinning. I checked the fluid, and it was dry.
After refilling the hydraulic pump reservoir, I went back in the coach to try again. I hit the extend button for a maximum of a total of 30 seconds in a few bursts. The reservoir was empty again. I looked for leaking that I surely had, but I could not find any leak inside or outside the coach. I subsequently went to lunch, and the dextron III magically appeared under and on the side of the coach in both front wheel wells and some in the center between the front wheel wells. I was puzzled because I did not hit the front slide button at all.
I found out through researching on this site that looking at the schematics provided by others that any time the pump is on there are several circuits that have pressure in them both front and back independent of which slide you are trying to move. Surprise, but this is as designed.
The fun has begun and I have started on the work. Here is a summary of what I found out to remove for rebuilding the cylinders. I plan on rebuilding all of them, they have a few years on them and likely the seals have hardened and will start to have problems. I would rather rebuild them now, as preventative maintenance instead of having leaks every now and again in the most inopportune times....
To get the front slide front extend/retract cylinder out, there are access panels in both front wheel wells that are screwed in. On the drivers side, the access panel is just above the top of the tire nearest the center of the coach wheel well. On the passenger side, the access panel is just above the top of the tire near the outside of the coach. The panels are approximately 10-12" rectangular. On my coach, there is 2 access panels on the passenger side. A second access panel was cut directly on the passenger side directly below the front hydraulic cylinder most of the way to the inside of the wheel well and is about 8" wide. I think this may not be "stock" as the cylinder has a newer s/n than coaches that were build a few years after mine (Mr. Whites). I did not have to remove the passenger side tire, but the drivers side had to be removed to access the cylinder rod retaining bolt.
To get at the vertical flat head allen bolt, the slide needs to be extended almost fully. I did not extend the slide fully, I only extended it enough to get at the vertical allen bolt in the access panel. To extend the front slide, there is 2 actuators. For re-assembly I was told after the fact that I should have extended the room fully, but I was afraid to push the room out onto the driveway. It just might be harder to adjust, I guess I will find out. The rear actuator is accessible in the ceiling of the bays by removing the insulation board by cutting at the metal tape neatly at the steel supports and pulling off at the velcro that is stuck to the outermost metal frame.
If you can, if you have only minor leaking, you could use the normal extension method to get the slide out. I could not because of the massive leak I had on the front cylinder retract side. I needed to use a hand pump. To extend a functioning cylinder you need to install a "T" on the extension and retract hose connections of the cylinder. I would do this at the cylinder making sure to identify all hoses prior to disconnecting anything. This was a one of several tips from Richard and Tom. On my non-functioning leaky cylinder, I capped the retract side of the cylinder and only connected the hose to extend fitting.
Prior to actually extending the slide, make sure that the air bladder seal is deflated. I would add a ball valve upstream of the regulator in the bay under the slide. Use the key switch on the slide control to release all pressure, you do not want to roll the seal.
In order for the slide to stay in alignment and not rub on the sides of the coach, I could only have the slide with a maximum of 1" of misalignment from front to back. Luckily my pump had a valve that allowed me to easily switch between front and aft actuation, I would recommend this to eliminate the hooking up and disconnecting your hoses multiple times, it would be very messy. Sometimes when I pumped the front cylinder, the back side of the slide would also come out some (and visa-versa). Have a helper measure while you pump unless you want to walk miles.
The pressure in the pump to get the slide to move was 1000psi or less. Once sliding I am guessing the pressure was about half to keep it moving.
After the vertical flat head allen head bolt was reachable on the drivers side, I removed the bolt. To get the cylinder out, it has to be fully (or almost fully) retracted. I tried several things. First I tried to use the hand hydraulic pump on the retract side of the cylinder. This did nothing but leak, but please know that the block on the end of the cylinder did not start flowing until I reached about 1000psi. I am guessing it is because of the check valve inside does not flow. Next I tried to use a venturi vacuum evacuator hooked up to the extend side of the cylinder with the retract side open to atmosphere. Again no luck in movement. Then I removed the large nut on the cap end of the cylinder in the passenger wheel well and pushed it out of the bracket it was in. Then I put the flat head bolt back in the hole (of course it did not line up but I only wanted a stop block to push against) and wedged a piece of wood to keep it in position. I then opened both sides of the fittings of the cylinder and pushed against the cylinder by hand and surprise, the cylinder retracted. To retract it fully I used and ratchet extension with a socket on the end to guide it on the cylinder cap end bolt and pushed until the piston bottomed out. Prior to pushing, I threaded some bailing wire in the hose clamp that was existing on the cylinder and wired it shut. I then pulled on the wire to retrieve the cylinder from the hole it was in. I was then able to get the cylinder out of the coach easily. No need to remove the tire on the passenger side. I jacked the coach up so that I could easily reach between the tire and the wheel flare to work. Of course, put the coach on jack stands.....
I used about a roll of paper towels to sop up the leaky fluid as best as I could. I also forgot to mention this is the first job so far that has drawn blood on the coach.
When out of the coach the leak was obvious. I imagined it was a blown seal, a damaged fitting, or a blown tube that fed the retract side of the cylinder. I was wrong on all three guesses. The block on the end of the cylinder failed so it will have to be replaced.
I have a line on a complete cylinder that I can get and plan on using that one. Does anyone have the block on the end of the cylinder that is in good shape? I would be interested in trying to rebuild this cylinder if I can get that part of the assembly as well as getting the threads out of this cylinder.