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Coolant expansion tank
#61

I use Final Charge OAT also, for the past two years. 8V92 is still intact. Some of the other forums scared the daylights out of me. I must say though that I had a coolant leak in freezing snow, and that red color looked liked some one had  been murdered in our campground.

Guy & Sue
1984 Classic 40' #59
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#62

(10-02-2022, 07:41 PM)Richard Wrote:  Joe,

The question of which coolant you have is a tough one. If you have any records, then you may be in luck.

The essence of the problem is this. All the coolants are ethylene glycol. The difference is in the additive package which is required to prevent cavitation on the wet cylinder liner in the engine. For years, the coolant used contained nitrates, commonly referred to as SCA’s. Life was good and coolants were simple. The along came extended life coolants using Organic Acid Technology, OAT. The advantage being much longer life, and no need for adding SCAs to the system periodically. Life was still simple because the original coolants using SCA were dyed green, and the new OAT based coolants were dyed red.

Then for some unknown reason, coolant manufacturers started using pink, and orange, and red in coolants with SCA  or in coolants using OAT. The coolant additive packages ARE NOT compatible, and if mixed can cause gelling problems in the cooling system.

This non standardization of colors created a huge problem in the diesel coolant world.

This is an oversimplified condensed version of the situation. I encourage you to spend some time researching this topic before proceeding.

Wait, it gets worse. I am not aware of any commercially available test system that will tell you which of the  additive packages you have.

So, you can’t depend on color. And you can’t easily test.

If you have records, then stay with what the records indicate is in the system. If you don’t have records, then a sample sent to Blackstone or another testing lab may be able to identify what you have. But that is a long shot. Without records, most people drain the system, flush with distilled water, and refill with the coolant of choice. If you do that, please leave records for the next owner.  Like Steve Bare, I use Final Charge OAT because it is available at Walmart.


Wonderful information! Thank you! Richard. 

I don't have a record of this coach, as I haven't owned this 701 coach for long. 
Coach 701 was once Marc Newman's coach, https://newellgurus.com/member.php?actio...le&uid=183
I don't know what year Marc sold his 701. But the owner before me bought it in 2019; his family owns a trucking service business. So he never had to travel to Newell for regular repair or maintenance. I spoke to this previous owner a couple of times. He doesn't appear to know this coach well, he'd refer me to the manufacturer, and he says the factory is based in Miami, FloridaTongue

However, there is one handwritten mark on the recovery tank, it appears "FAEON 4.0", or "PAEON 4.0". Searching over Intenet doesn't find any sensible results.
Does the marking on the recovery tank mean anything to you?


   
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#63

That designation does not mean anything to me.

In my view of the world, changing the coolant is one of those items that you just do to zero baseline the coach when you don’t have any history.

It’s not a hard project nor terribly expensive. The system is going to hold somewhere between 15 and 20 gallons of coolant. So you will need four five gallon pails to catch the used coolant. You will find a low point drain at the bottom of the radiator closest to the rear of the coach. You will have to look carefully but it is there. Newell made a small hole in the floor below the radiator for access. Your local recycling center should take the used coolant. You may also find a low point drain, on the chromed pipe connecting to the water pump.

Remove the coolant filter when the system is drained. Replace it with a new one. If using the OAT system, then the filter should NOT contain any supplemental SCA additives.

Fill the system with distilled water and bring the system up to temperature. While the engine is coming up to temp, keep the cap off the upper tank and continue adding distilled water each time the level drops. Each time the thermostat opens the cooling system will take a bit more. Turn on the dash heat to high to aid circulation in the loop to the front. Turn on the engine preheat to aid in circulation to the Aquahot.

Drain the distilled water and send it to recycling also since it will contain ethylene glycol.

Now you are set to fill the system with the new coolant using the same technique as the distilled water. If you are a gadget guy, @skyking, has a nifty tool for aiding in eliminating air in the system. https://www.amazon.com/UView-550500INT-A...e904010ad0

This is a day project with modest expense compared to the consequences of mixing coolants or running the engine with exhausted corrosion and cavitation prevention.

And as you are experiencing, document the type and date of change for the next owner.

Richard and Rhonda Entrekin
99 Newell, 512
Maverick Hybrid Toad
Inverness, FL (when we're home Cool )
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#64

There are test strip kits available to test the coolant for anti-cavitation treatment. Fleetguard # cc2602a.

1993 Newell (316) 45' 8V92,towing an Imperial open trailer or RnR custom built enclosed trailer. FMCA#232958 '67 Airstream Overlander 27' '67GTO,'76TransAm,'52Chevy panel, 2000 Corvette "Lingenfelter"modified, '23 Grand Cherokee.
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#65

Dean,

You are correct, but I don’t believe the test strips will distinguish between a depleted SCA additive coolant and OAT additive coolant which doesn’t have any nitrates.

I have reached out to several labs to see if they have a test to distinguish between the two.

Richard and Rhonda Entrekin
99 Newell, 512
Maverick Hybrid Toad
Inverness, FL (when we're home Cool )
Reply
#66

(10-03-2022, 07:37 AM)Richard Wrote:  That designation does not mean anything to me.

In my view of the world, changing the coolant is one of those items that you just do to zero baseline the coach when you don’t have any history.

It’s not a hard project nor terribly expensive. The system is going to hold somewhere between 15 and 20 gallons of coolant. So you will need four five gallon pails to catch the used coolant. You will find a low point drain at the bottom of the radiator closest to the rear of the coach. You will have to look carefully but it is there. Newell made a small hole in the floor below the radiator for access. Your local recycling center should take the used coolant. You may also find a low point drain, on the chromed pipe connecting to the water pump.

Remove the coolant filter when the system is drained. Replace it with a new one. If using the OAT system, then the filter should NOT contain any supplemental SCA additives.

Fill the system with distilled water and bring the system up to temperature. While the engine is coming up to temp, keep the cap off the upper tank and continue adding distilled water each time the level drops. Each time the thermostat opens the cooling system will take a bit more. Turn on the dash heat to high to aid circulation in the loop to the front. Turn on the engine preheat to aid in circulation to the Aquahot.

Drain the distilled water and send it to recycling also since it will contain ethylene glycol.

Now you are set to fill the system with the new coolant using the same technique as the distilled water. If you are a gadget guy, @skyking, has a nifty tool for aiding in eliminating air in the system. https://www.amazon.com/UView-550500INT-A...e904010ad0

This is a day project with modest expense compared to the consequences of mixing coolants or running the engine with exhausted corrosion and cavitation prevention.

And as you are experiencing, document the type and date of change for the next owner.


Thank you very much for the valuable information!  
I have ordered the aluminum tank to replace the Arize Tech CS300 and also ordered a coolant filter.  
I will do exactly what you recommended - replace the existing coolant in the system. 

But I am still looking into this tool you recommended; never seen this in the past, not to -  "UView 550500INT Heavy Duty Airlift II Cooling System Refiller", is this absolutely necessary?

Joe Zhao @ Greenville TX 75402
2004 Newell Coach 701, 45-8, 4 Slides, Front Entry
Detroit Diesel 60 w/DDEC, Allison 6-Speed AT, ZF Suspension w/Steerable Tag, ZF Auto Traction Control
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#67

No the tool is not absolutely necessary.

The red fluid near the fan motor IS hydraulic fluid, not coolant. It can leak from the fan motor connections, or the seals in the Overhung Load Adaptor, which is the gearbox between the fan motor and the fan.

Clean the area with brake cleaner. Then take small sections of white paper towel and zip tie in strategic locations. Keeping in mind that fluids don’t flow up hill. The white paper towel is a very quick visual when the red hits it. By the way, Newell uses Auto Transmission Fluid for the hydraulic fluid.

Richard and Rhonda Entrekin
99 Newell, 512
Maverick Hybrid Toad
Inverness, FL (when we're home Cool )
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#68

(10-04-2022, 03:50 PM)Richard Wrote:  No the tool is not absolutely necessary.

The red fluid near the fan motor IS hydraulic fluid, not coolant. It can leak from the fan motor connections, or the seals in the Overhung Load Adaptor, which is the gearbox between the fan motor and the fan.

Clean the area with brake cleaner. Then take small sections of white paper towel and zip tie in strategic locations. Keeping in mind that fluids don’t flow up hill. The white paper towel is a very quick visual when the red hits it. By the way, Newell uses Auto Transmission Fluid for the hydraulic fluid.


Thank you, Richard. You are right. The more I examined and looked for the source of the leak, the more it appears to me the leak is hydraulic fluid. 
I am still trying to figure out the source of the leak. It's a very small, tiny seeping leak. 

You said: "Newell uses Auto Transmission Fluid for the hydraulic fluid.", I looked up on NAPA and amazon, and there appear lots of choices in this category.
I wonder if there is any particular type or make that Newell recommends? 
Is this one good choice?  https://www.amazon.com/Valvoline-Multi-V...B008QDV2JG

Joe Zhao @ Greenville TX 75402
2004 Newell Coach 701, 45-8, 4 Slides, Front Entry
Detroit Diesel 60 w/DDEC, Allison 6-Speed AT, ZF Suspension w/Steerable Tag, ZF Auto Traction Control
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#69

Newell typically uses Mobil synthetic lubricants. In this application, it is my opinion that it does not matter which brand or type. You can’t go wrong with a synthetic type III or IV. They will be compatible with what is already in the system.

So why all the different types. It’s not quite as bad as the coolant confusion mess, but in the early days of automatic transmissions in cars. The big three all designed auto transmissions that required a different trans fluid to function properly. It had to do with friction properties and the slip clutches inside the tranny. Today, with the advanced transmissions and CVTs, it is best to read the owners manual.

Here is some supplemental reading on the leaking situation. http://newellgurus.com/showthread.php?tid=4604

Richard and Rhonda Entrekin
99 Newell, 512
Maverick Hybrid Toad
Inverness, FL (when we're home Cool )
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