[Mike]

I'm still doing my research on which Newell to buy. Most of the issues are around carpet, curtains, mattresses and paint. However, I'm still not sure what to decide when it comes to the minor point of which engine, axle and transmission is the best choice.

If I were considering a new coach that decision would be easier but I'm in the classic mode, '84 to '89, and there are options.

On offer are 6V92, 8V92, 8V60, single axle, tag axle, 4 speed and 6 speed. So many choices. What's a guy to do. I feel like the only guy at a girl's school social.

Does a 2 stroke 6V suck more fuel than an 8V four stroke? If the same couch had one or the other would the fuel consumption matter when going down the highway with cruise control in charge. Is fuel consumption the most important issue? If the 2 stroke 6 has turbo will it run as strongly as a 4 stroke 8 or is that the issue I should be concerned about? Should I be definitely more interested in one or the other?  

Is a tag axle necessary? And why or when? Is it worth the additional weight, maintenance and tires?

Why would I want 6 speed rather than 4 speed transmission and vise versa? Are the top gear ratios the same so the difference is just a smoother transition between gears or are some transmission geared lower for different needs?

The options are open at this stage. Next week I'm heading out on a road trip to check out several coaches around the country and hoping to return in a week or two with a prize. I've got six to eight nice coaches on my list but don't know for sure about these questions. Price and operating costs are a concern for me.  If I could clear up this confusion it will be a prize not a puzzle.

After I make my choice, with your help, I will be having a professional inspection done and would appreciate any recommendations you might have on that issue also.

Looking forward to your opinions on this.
Mike

[HoosierDaddy]

OK, I'll take a swing at this so the engineers on the board can fill in the gaps in my knowledge!!!!
First... 8=number of cylinders
V= the cylinder configuration
92 = the cubic inches of each cylinder.
The 6v92 and the 8v92 are similar with the exception being either 6 cylinder or 8 cylinder. They are all 2 stroke engines with a supercharger mounted in the V part of the engine. Some were turbocharged as well. I believe these engines were referred to as 8v92T or 6v92T. I have never heard of a 8v60. The reference may be to a DD series 60 which superseded the v92 series in the 1990's. It is an inline 6 cylinder of a completely different configuration.
All Newells of this vintage that I have seen use an Allison transmission. Generally these are very durable and will last many miles with proper maintenance. All are 1:1 ratio in high gear so once you are up to speed there would be no difference in operation. My 1978 Newell had a 5 speed Allison. It worked well but was a little harsh on downshifts.
Tag axles were added to accommodate the longer coaches as they added more options that added weight.
Tag axles are added complexity, take away from under floor storage and limit turning radius. However they add stability to the coach on the highway as well as allow for more GVW.

[Fulltiming]

Dean has given you some good pointer. I would suggest that the mechanicals, most notably their condition, are much more important to your enjoyment than the carpet, etc. In the time frame you are taking about, you are likely going to have a choice of:
1) length - by 1980, 36' was the shortest Newell, prior to 1986 all were 96" wide. In 1986 the wide body (102") was available in a 40'. 39 and 40' coaches were available by 1986 with or without a tag. The narrow body is easier to get into very smaller parks but the wide body offers more open space inside. If the windshield is two piece during this time period, it is a narrow body, if it has a narrow third section in the center, it is a wide body (this is only applicable to the classics as all the Series 2000's are wide bodies and have only two piece windshields. If you use National/State Parks the shorter coaches are more likely to be allowed in. In private parks and boondocking, size typically is not an issue (in the 36 to 40' range).
2) engines - there are a few owners that specified an unusual engine (and some have been re-powered since) but by the 1984 models the engines were the 6V92's, the Cummins V903 and the Detroit 8V92T. The 8V92's were more powerful (approximately 100 additional horsepower) and heavier but during the time range you are looking into, the VAST majority will be 8V92's and most will be manual (non-electronic engines). In 1987 models, some began using the DDEC (electronic engine control system engines in the 8V92T. I would typically suggest the most powerful engine you can get if you are going to be driving in the mountains. On flat land, any of the engines will be superb and get better fuel mileage. If possible get an oil analysis as it will be a good indication of engine condition. An engine going bad is by far the most expensive thing that can happen to a coach. Mileage means very little IF the coach has been well maintained. The Series 60 was a superb engine but didn't exist during this time frame and the conversion would not be reasonable.
3) axles - by 1987 most were 3 axles due to the increased rear axle weight with the larger diesel engines and the growing lengths. The tag axle will add 10,000 pounds to the carrying capacity. They do increase the turning radius but give much more loading carrying capacity and increase straight line stability.
4) transmissions - the earlier ones used 5 speed Allisons (mostly with the lower horsepower engines) and the later ones used 4 speed Allison HT740. The 5 speeds were used not used much with the 8V92's after 1984 due to rougher shifting with the higher horsepower engines per Newell. Go with whatever it has. You will likely NOT find 6 speed Allisons. I have seen one 1984 listed as having a 6 speed Allison but I am skeptical. With the 350 HP engines the 5 speed is needed but not with the 450+HP 8V92's. Again, unless you are in high mountains (think Rockies), the extra gears are of little benefit unless you have the lower horsepower engines.

[Mike]

Thanks for the information and quelling my concerns about the transmissions.

On the engines I follow you all the way to the 6o series. I'm sure what I have been hearing is the DD 60 series but it had been referred to as 8V60. Which ever is the proper nomenclature I'm concerned if I should rather have one than the other.

I assume that the 60 series is a better/newer/more advanced and more powerful engine but should I make that an important function in my decision of one coach over the other?

I would imagine that both the 92 series and the 60 series are more than adequate for the job of moving a Newell down the road. However, the difference in 6 or 8 cylinders and 2 or 4 stroke must mean something, if nothing more than fuel consumption. How about failure, parts, cost to overhaul, noise, power, fuel consumption and many other considerations I'm not aware of?

I don't want to favor a newer and therefore more expensive coach over a perfectly adequate one that is older and has a two stroke unless there is a real reason to do so.

Thanks for your help

Mike

[Mike]

Thanks again. I'm getting a handle on this with your help.
I want to do this right.
What I'm hearing is that both engines are up to the job unless I'm running between Denver and Vail ten times a year.

Let me pose this hypothetical question: I'm driving across Texas flatland and traveling 65 MPH with the cruise control on. Which engine will get the better mileage?

Also, any suggestion on hiring a qualified inspector?

Mike

[kyleb]

I have a 1987 widebody with the tag axle and the 8V92 and 4 spd Allison - I average 6 mpg with the generator running most of the time.

Owning a ~30 year old motorhome isn't for those with shallow pockets. As much as I LOVE mine, it isn't cheap, but it is EXACTLY what I wanted in a motorhome and more! We are so comfortable in it riding down the road & when parked. So, it isn't too expensive for us.

For me, when it comes to the total cost of ownership, fuel cost is way, way down the list.

The difference between 4.5 mpg & 7.5 mpg for a 1000 mile trip is 89 gallons.
--- If $200 makes that big of a difference, then I would suggest you pursue a different activity. Annual maintenance costs are stronger than you may think & on a 30 year old coach, there will be surprises.
Besides, a fuel fill-up is usually the cheapest part of my trip, if I am in the Newell, I know that I'll have a clean restroom whenever I need one!

Like has been said above- the condition of the drive train in the coach you are looking at is way more important than the carpet or fuel mileage.

Also, with production numbers of around 30 per year, you won't be able to be too picky - there simply aren't that many to choose from. I got incredibly lucky when I found mine.

[Mike]

Thanks Kaleb,
That's good information and advice.
My pockets aren't deep but they are able to deal with the costs you refer to. I just wanted to know beforehand so I wouldn't be blown away by the fuel usage. Also, I wanted the information to come from someone, like you, that wasn't trying to sell his Newell to me.
I have found 8 units to look at and the prices are spread from 85 thousand down to 30 thousand. If one or two of them is sold before I make my choice that will only make choosing easier.
Thanks for your help,
Mike

[Fulltiming]

Thanks for the information and quelling my concerns about the transmissions.

On the engines I follow you all the way to the 6o series. I'm sure what I have been hearing is the DD 60 series but it had been referred to as 8V60. Which ever is the proper nomenclature I'm concerned if I should rather have one than the other.

I assume that the 60 series is a better/newer/more advanced and more powerful engine but should I make that an important function in my decision of one coach over the other?

I would imagine that both the 92 series and the 60 series are more than adequate for the job of moving a Newell down the road. However, the difference in 6 or 8 cylinders and 2 or 4 stroke must mean something, if nothing more than fuel consumption. How about failure, parts, cost to overhaul, noise, power, fuel consumption and many other considerations I'm not aware of?

I don't want to favor a newer and therefore more expensive coach over a perfectly adequate one that is older and has a two stroke unless there is a real reason to do so.

Thanks for your help

Mike

Mike, there is no such thing as an 8V60. The two-stroke Detroit Diesels used in motorhomes were the 6V92 and the 8V92. In other uses (military, off road equipment, etc there were 8V53, 8V71 8V92, 8V149. The Series 60 is an inline 6 and is a four stroke. It was not introduced during the time period you are referring to and they are WAY to tall to put in a Newell Classic. If you have a choice, the Series 60 is a great engine with many more mechanics that know how to work on it BUT #364, a 1994 is the first Newell I am aware of with the Series 60 and Newell actually changed the floorplan to accommodate the taller engine and moved the radiator from the rear to the side. The Series 60 does get better fuel mileage but if you want a Series 60, you need to be looking at late 1994 or more recent Newells. #376, a 1995, was the last Newell I am aware of with an 8V92. Coaches with the Series 60 demand a noticeable premium over the 8V92 in addition to being newer coaches.  #385, a 1995, was the last Newell I am aware of with a Series 60 AND an Allison HT740 four speed transmission. After that Newell put only the 6 speed Allison in coaches with the Detroit Series 60.

[kyleb]

Personally, I like the look of the tag axle - it balances out the proportions. I also like the look of the upright windows vs the older slanted windows.
I like the widebody with no slides. Easier to setup & use while underway.
I also wanted a mechanical engine, I am not that comfortable with the computers in older vehicles, but that is just me.

After those desires were met, we had decided that we would accept almost any floor plan. As it turned out, the first one for sale that we looked at was the best floor plan we could have hoped for. Still some things we would like to change, but nothing major - The basement air conditioning takes up useful space inside, I am considering ducted roof airs with a common plenum. . . .

Currently, it is in the shop for cracked exhaust manifolds & to see if they can determine the cause for excessive air use while using cruise control - I could find no air leaks . . . .

Ahh, the life of a very happy Newell owner!

[whatsnewell]

I've got the 6V92, 350 HSPR....I get 6.5-7 mpg pulling a 7,000 lb. enclosed car hauler. I have a 5 speed Allison.