[Richard]

I post this solely for your entertainment. Laugh with me, and at me, I deserve it. 

I have heard that our strengths are also our weaknesses, and I believe that. I have no fear of anything mechanical and a strong curiosity. I have been taking things apart since I was a baby to see what was inside. Sometimes, though, things may not go back together all that well. And that talent gets me into the very deep end of the pool. 

Some of you know about my compulsion with the steering behaviour of the coach. It's ok to snicker about it. I realize it is an obsession. In an effort to improve the freeplay in the center of the steering and reduce side to side wandering, I undertook an effort to carefully quantify exactly where the freeplay in the steering was coming from. I had already measured the slop in all the steering joints using a dial indicator, so I mounted a dial indicator on the end of the pitman arm, and had Rhonda measure how far the steering wheel would move right and left to achieve 0.002 movement at the arm. I was not surprised that it took 1.25 inches at the steering wheel rim to move the pitman arm forward and back 0.002 inches. 

All of that nonsense to explain WHY I decided to take the steering gear box out. No matter how tightly the box was adjusted with the sector screw, the freeplay could not be reduced any further. I also could not detect any movement in the universal joints in the steering or the attachment points at either end of the steering shaft. 

So off the box comes. By the way, it weighs about 140 lbs. In my younger days, that was an easy bench press. So I am thinking since I am lying on my back directly under it, I should be able to lift it out and lower it. Wrong. Oh I did it. But it pinned me to the ground. I had to roll out from under it. 

So off to the bench to see why the gearbox has internal freeplay. By the way, the support engineer at TRW is sick of talking to me. TRW's attitude is that you shouldn't be in that box. It really didn't help my impression of him that his first response to many of my questions was "Why do you need to know that?". Talking about waving a red flag in front of a bull. 

Anyhoo, the reason that freeplay is in the box happens to be the way a power steering box works. In short there is a rod in the length of the box. In concept one end of the rod is attached to the steering wheel, the other end attached to the mechanical gears that force the box to work if you lose power steering. In betwixt (that's a redneck technical term you know) there are small ports in the rod that send hydraulic fluid to move the power steering. That rod twists wheel you turn the steering wheel. The twisting opens the ports to activate the power steering, but the rod must twist before anything happens. Well, guess how much it twists. Yep, that is a lot of the freeplay we feel. Gear boxes come with different diameter rods. The small the rod, the more it twists, and the easier the coach is to steer. But the smaller the rod, the more numb the center will be. 

The point being I have taken out the gear box and taken it apart only to learn, it's in the design and it's not something that is out of adjustment. 

While I have the gearbox out, I might as well put new seals in it. It's not leaking but what the heck. So I wait a week for a seal kit. A hundred bucks or so, but far better than the 1100 Wellman wanted to rebuild it for me. Seal kit comes, I install, and promptly clip the main seal on the hydraulic ram. OOPs, order another seal kit, wait a few days, and try again. That 1100 rebuild is looking better. This time it went together just fine. 

Install using ropes pulleys and floor jack. I haven't gotten any stronger and I know I can't just grab it and shove it up there. 

Finally, ready to test. Oh by the way, during this same time, I have been replacing the radiator and CAC. While I was in there I retorqued the head, set the valves and jakes, and replaced the flex piece on the exhaust. I am anxious to crank this puppy to see if 1) it will start 2) see if I have leaks 3) and I really want to have the coach mobile for Rhonda's scheduled depart date of May 11. No pressure, right. 

It starts and everything is dry. Cool . But I here some weird noise, and I am thinking air in the hydraulic system. After all I had both the hyd fan and the steering box disconnected. I am letting the engine idle and I walk around the coach to get a flashlight. That's when I see a lake of pink foam spewing out of the steering gear like a whacked out Liberace fountain. Holy cow. Kill the engine. By the way, I am having a sinking feeling right about now, and wondering how I was so stupid to ever take this thing apart. I am already imagining two days labor to get it out and put it back in. 

The only thing I can imagine is that in my fog I reversed the in and out lines and that has caused this. So I swap the lines and crank up. Wrong, more pink foam. Lot's of pink foam. 

Well, I won't post what I said, but it rhymes with yuck. Ok, sit down, have lunch and think about what is wrong. The pink foam is coming out of the vent plug. Hmmm, the only way that can happen is if one particular seal is leaking. I am in luck, there is one piece that you can remove from the box without removing the box from the chassis, and it is the piece with the misbehaving seal. I know I have another seal since, I bought two kits remember? 

When I remove the plate, sure enough the seal is displaced and deformed. Ok, take it to the bench and install the new seal. I did, reinstalled the plate, and was fixing to crank again (Yes, fixing to is official Texas terminology). It hit me that the same thing was going to happen. Engineers definition of insanity, doing the same thing but expecting a different outcome. So I removed the plate again. 

I have written a novel to get to the goofy part. I took the plate back the bench. Something just didn't seem right about the seal. I remembered removing the old seal and how hard it was to get out, and this one I can press in with my fingers. Nah, 2500 psi is going to blow out anything I can press with my fingers. I have other seals in the kit that fit the shaft diameter perfectly but they are slightly too large to fit into the bore in the plate. The seal I have fits almost perfectly in the bore, but it's just not tight enough. I am thinking one more call to the guy at TRW and ask why the correct seals are not in THEIR rebuild kit. Then the light bulb comes on. When I took out the old seal, I actually tore it apart, and what I think is the bore is part of the original seal. It just so happens that another seal in the kit fits into that bore. Holy cow, batman. Take hammer and chisel and remove the false bore. Bingo, now the other seal will press into place. 

Reassemble. Confirm which is the supply line by putting two cups under the disconnected hoses and bumping the engine. The cup that has pink stuff is the supply line. 

Woo Hoo, it's dry. We get to go on our trip!

By the way, I replaced the steering universals while I was in there.

But..........the real culprit was that the pinch bolt for the upper connection the steering shaft was not tight enough. When I got the gear box out, it allowed me to feel play between the steering column shaft and the lower steering column. 

So all of that for a bolt I could have tightened in five minutes if only I could have detected it. 

Sorry for the novel. I hope you didn't strangle on your coffee as you read about my follies. 

Safe travels.

[ron skeen]

I post this solely for your entertainment. Laugh with me, and at me, I deserve it. 

I have heard that our strengths are also our weaknesses, and I believe that. I have no fear of anything mechanical and a strong curiosity. I have been taking things apart since I was a baby to see what was inside. Sometimes, though, things may not go back together all that well. And that talent gets me into the very deep end of the pool. 

Some of you know about my compulsion with the steering behaviour of the coach. It's ok to snicker about it. I realize it is an obsession. In an effort to improve the freeplay in the center of the steering and reduce side to side wandering, I undertook an effort to carefully quantify exactly where the freeplay in the steering was coming from. I had already measured the slop in all the steering joints using a dial indicator, so I mounted a dial indicator on the end of the pitman arm, and had Rhonda measure how far the steering wheel would move right and left to achieve 0.002 movement at the arm. I was not surprised that it took 1.25 inches at the steering wheel rim to move the pitman arm forward and back 0.002 inches. 

All of that nonsense to explain WHY I decided to take the steering gear box out. No matter how tightly the box was adjusted with the sector screw, the freeplay could not be reduced any further. I also could not detect any movement in the universal joints in the steering or the attachment points at either end of the steering shaft. 

So off the box comes. By the way, it weighs about 140 lbs. In my younger days, that was an easy bench press. So I am thinking since I am lying on my back directly under it, I should be able to lift it out and lower it. Wrong. Oh I did it. But it pinned me to the ground. I had to roll out from under it. 

So off to the bench to see why the gearbox has internal freeplay. By the way, the support engineer at TRW is sick of talking to me. TRW's attitude is that you shouldn't be in that box. It really didn't help my impression of him that his first response to many of my questions was "Why do you need to know that?". Talking about waving a red flag in front of a bull. 

Anyhoo, the reason that freeplay is in the box happens to be the way a power steering box works. In short there is a rod in the length of the box. In concept one end of the rod is attached to the steering wheel, the other end attached to the mechanical gears that force the box to work if you lose power steering. In betwixt (that's a redneck technical term you know) there are small ports in the rod that send hydraulic fluid to move the power steering. That rod twists wheel you turn the steering wheel. The twisting opens the ports to activate the power steering, but the rod must twist before anything happens. Well, guess how much it twists. Yep, that is a lot of the freeplay we feel. Gear boxes come with different diameter rods. The small the rod, the more it twists, and the easier the coach is to steer. But the smaller the rod, the more numb the center will be. 

The point being I have taken out the gear box and taken it apart only to learn, it's in the design and it's not something that is out of adjustment. 

While I have the gearbox out, I might as well put new seals in it. It's not leaking but what the heck. So I wait a week for a seal kit. A hundred bucks or so, but far better than the 1100 Wellman wanted to rebuild it for me. Seal kit comes, I install, and promptly clip the main seal on the hydraulic ram. OOPs, order another seal kit, wait a few days, and try again. That 1100 rebuild is looking better. This time it went together just fine. 

Install using ropes pulleys and floor jack. I haven't gotten any stronger and I know I can't just grab it and shove it up there. 

Finally, ready to test. Oh by the way, during this same time, I have been replacing the radiator and CAC. While I was in there I retorqued the head, set the valves and jakes, and replaced the flex piece on the exhaust. I am anxious to crank this puppy to see if 1) it will start 2) see if I have leaks 3) and I really want to have the coach mobile for Rhonda's scheduled depart date of May 11. No pressure, right. 

It starts and everything is dry. Cool . But I here some weird noise, and I am thinking air in the hydraulic system. After all I had both the hyd fan and the steering box disconnected. I am letting the engine idle and I walk around the coach to get a flashlight. That's when I see a lake of pink foam spewing out of the steering gear like a whacked out Liberace fountain. Holy cow. Kill the engine. By the way, I am having a sinking feeling right about now, and wondering how I was so stupid to ever take this thing apart. I am already imagining two days labor to get it out and put it back in. 

The only thing I can imagine is that in my fog I reversed the in and out lines and that has caused this. So I swap the lines and crank up. Wrong, more pink foam. Lot's of pink foam. 

Well, I won't post what I said, but it rhymes with yuck. Ok, sit down, have lunch and think about what is wrong. The pink foam is coming out of the vent plug. Hmmm, the only way that can happen is if one particular seal is leaking. I am in luck, there is one piece that you can remove from the box without removing the box from the chassis, and it is the piece with the misbehaving seal. I know I have another seal since, I bought two kits remember? 

When I remove the plate, sure enough the seal is displaced and deformed. Ok, take it to the bench and install the new seal. I did, reinstalled the plate, and was fixing to crank again (Yes, fixing to is official Texas terminology). It hit me that the same thing was going to happen. Engineers definition of insanity, doing the same thing but expecting a different outcome. So I removed the plate again. 

I have written a novel to get to the goofy part. I took the plate back the bench. Something just didn't seem right about the seal. I remembered removing the old seal and how hard it was to get out, and this one I can press in with my fingers. Nah, 2500 psi is going to blow out anything I can press with my fingers. I have other seals in the kit that fit the shaft diameter perfectly but they are slightly too large to fit into the bore in the plate. The seal I have fits almost perfectly in the bore, but it's just not tight enough. I am thinking one more call to the guy at TRW and ask why the correct seals are not in THEIR rebuild kit. Then the light bulb comes on. When I took out the old seal, I actually tore it apart, and what I think is the bore is part of the original seal. It just so happens that another seal in the kit fits into that bore. Holy cow, batman. Take hammer and chisel and remove the false bore. Bingo, now the other seal will press into place. 

Reassemble. Confirm which is the supply line by putting two cups under the disconnected hoses and bumping the engine. The cup that has pink stuff is the supply line. 

Woo Hoo, it's dry. We get to go on our trip!

By the way, I replaced the steering universals while I was in there.

But..........the real culprit was that the pinch bolt for the upper connection the steering shaft was not tight enough. When I got the gear box out, it allowed me to feel play between the steering column shaft and the lower steering column. 

So all of that for a bolt I could have tightened in five minutes if only I could have detected it. 

Sorry for the novel. I hope you didn't strangle on your coffee as you read about my follies. 

Safe travels.

Only Richard attempts something like this! How did the CAC and RAD go? Your the Man and look forward to some great conversation in Bella Tara.

[HoosierDaddy]

Thanks ,Richard for the story! I can relate at so many levels!! Another affliction I have is that I will spend hours repairing something that I could have bought new and replaced. There is a certain satisfaction in rebuilding something and in the process improving it or at least KNOWING everything is right.

[Chester Stone]

Richard, you are a great story teller. You string the words together well and I especially appreciate that you can easily talk about your mistakes. That's character.

[Fulltiming]

Look like time for you to convert to electric steering to see if that removes the play in the hydraulic steering box! Great story.

[Keith Jordan]

Look like time for you to convert to electric steering to see if that removes the play in the hydraulic steering box!  Great story.

I hope the cac radiator job went better than the steering box.I just did my cac radiator and I hope yours went better than mine.I had some choice words when I was doing it twice due to leak from manufacturer and not being smart enough to pressure test before the install.I was so depressed at one point that I was thinking Why didn't you replace it when you owned it. Then I regained consciousness and accepted it was my fault.Ther is a small dent in my barn door now due to a wrench that slipped out of my had during a heated battle with assembly

[ccjohnson]

Welcome to the post-doctorate studies program in "redneck engineering"!

[77newell]

When I had the steering gear in the 77 coach overhauled I, too, thought I could just muscle it in and out, nope, followed by a litany of expletives deleted and a collection of bruises that got more colorful with time.

I changed the fuel filter on the 77's generator. I could not get it to start afterwards. I bled the system until I had a bucket full of fuel, still nothing. Took the fuel filter off and reassembled, still nothing. Took it to my favorite mechanic. Whoa, one of the gaskets in the filter was the wrong one and blocking the fuel instead of sealing it. Once you see it you can never not see it, but until you see you can't see it.

If every mistake produces knowledge I should be a genius by now. I'm not, I remain deeply human as in "to err is human"

[ashley]

I post this solely for your entertainment. Laugh with me, and at me, I deserve it. 

I have heard that our strengths are also our weaknesses, and I believe that. I have no fear of anything mechanical and a strong curiosity. I have been taking things apart since I was a baby to see what was inside. Sometimes, though, things may not go back together all that well. And that talent gets me into the very deep end of the pool. 

Some of you know about my compulsion with the steering behaviour of the coach. It's ok to snicker about it. I realize it is an obsession. In an effort to improve the freeplay in the center of the steering and reduce side to side wandering, I undertook an effort to carefully quantify exactly where the freeplay in the steering was coming from. I had already measured the slop in all the steering joints using a dial indicator, so I mounted a dial indicator on the end of the pitman arm, and had Rhonda measure how far the steering wheel would move right and left to achieve 0.002 movement at the arm. I was not surprised that it took 1.25 inches at the steering wheel rim to move the pitman arm forward and back 0.002 inches. 

All of that nonsense to explain WHY I decided to take the steering gear box out. No matter how tightly the box was adjusted with the sector screw, the freeplay could not be reduced any further. I also could not detect any movement in the universal joints in the steering or the attachment points at either end of the steering shaft. 

So off the box comes. By the way, it weighs about 140 lbs. In my younger days, that was an easy bench press. So I am thinking since I am lying on my back directly under it, I should be able to lift it out and lower it. Wrong. Oh I did it. But it pinned me to the ground. I had to roll out from under it. 

So off to the bench to see why the gearbox has internal freeplay. By the way, the support engineer at TRW is sick of talking to me. TRW's attitude is that you shouldn't be in that box. It really didn't help my impression of him that his first response to many of my questions was "Why do you need to know that?". Talking about waving a red flag in front of a bull. 

Anyhoo, the reason that freeplay is in the box happens to be the way a power steering box works. In short there is a rod in the length of the box. In concept one end of the rod is attached to the steering wheel, the other end attached to the mechanical gears that force the box to work if you lose power steering. In betwixt (that's a redneck technical term you know) there are small ports in the rod that send hydraulic fluid to move the power steering. That rod twists wheel you turn the steering wheel. The twisting opens the ports to activate the power steering, but the rod must twist before anything happens. Well, guess how much it twists. Yep, that is a lot of the freeplay we feel. Gear boxes come with different diameter rods. The small the rod, the more it twists, and the easier the coach is to steer. But the smaller the rod, the more numb the center will be. 

The point being I have taken out the gear box and taken it apart only to learn, it's in the design and it's not something that is out of adjustment. 

While I have the gearbox out, I might as well put new seals in it. It's not leaking but what the heck. So I wait a week for a seal kit. A hundred bucks or so, but far better than the 1100 Wellman wanted to rebuild it for me. Seal kit comes, I install, and promptly clip the main seal on the hydraulic ram. OOPs, order another seal kit, wait a few days, and try again. That 1100 rebuild is looking better. This time it went together just fine. 

Install using ropes pulleys and floor jack. I haven't gotten any stronger and I know I can't just grab it and shove it up there. 

Finally, ready to test. Oh by the way, during this same time, I have been replacing the radiator and CAC. While I was in there I retorqued the head, set the valves and jakes, and replaced the flex piece on the exhaust. I am anxious to crank this puppy to see if 1) it will start 2) see if I have leaks 3) and I really want to have the coach mobile for Rhonda's scheduled depart date of May 11. No pressure, right. 

It starts and everything is dry. Cool . But I here some weird noise, and I am thinking air in the hydraulic system. After all I had both the hyd fan and the steering box disconnected. I am letting the engine idle and I walk around the coach to get a flashlight. That's when I see a lake of pink foam spewing out of the steering gear like a whacked out Liberace fountain. Holy cow. Kill the engine. By the way, I am having a sinking feeling right about now, and wondering how I was so stupid to ever take this thing apart. I am already imagining two days labor to get it out and put it back in. 

The only thing I can imagine is that in my fog I reversed the in and out lines and that has caused this. So I swap the lines and crank up. Wrong, more pink foam. Lot's of pink foam. 

Well, I won't post what I said, but it rhymes with yuck. Ok, sit down, have lunch and think about what is wrong. The pink foam is coming out of the vent plug. Hmmm, the only way that can happen is if one particular seal is leaking. I am in luck, there is one piece that you can remove from the box without removing the box from the chassis, and it is the piece with the misbehaving seal. I know I have another seal since, I bought two kits remember? 

When I remove the plate, sure enough the seal is displaced and deformed. Ok, take it to the bench and install the new seal. I did, reinstalled the plate, and was fixing to crank again (Yes, fixing to is official Texas terminology). It hit me that the same thing was going to happen. Engineers definition of insanity, doing the same thing but expecting a different outcome. So I removed the plate again. 

I have written a novel to get to the goofy part. I took the plate back the bench. Something just didn't seem right about the seal. I remembered removing the old seal and how hard it was to get out, and this one I can press in with my fingers. Nah, 2500 psi is going to blow out anything I can press with my fingers. I have other seals in the kit that fit the shaft diameter perfectly but they are slightly too large to fit into the bore in the plate. The seal I have fits almost perfectly in the bore, but it's just not tight enough. I am thinking one more call to the guy at TRW and ask why the correct seals are not in THEIR rebuild kit. Then the light bulb comes on. When I took out the old seal, I actually tore it apart, and what I think is the bore is part of the original seal. It just so happens that another seal in the kit fits into that bore. Holy cow, batman. Take hammer and chisel and remove the false bore. Bingo, now the other seal will press into place. 

Reassemble. Confirm which is the supply line by putting two cups under the disconnected hoses and bumping the engine. The cup that has pink stuff is the supply line. 

Woo Hoo, it's dry. We get to go on our trip!

By the way, I replaced the steering universals while I was in there.

But..........the real culprit was that the pinch bolt for the upper connection the steering shaft was not tight enough. When I got the gear box out, it allowed me to feel play between the steering column shaft and the lower steering column. 

So all of that for a bolt I could have tightened in five minutes if only I could have detected it. 

Sorry for the novel. I hope you didn't strangle on your coffee as you read about my follies. 

Safe travels.

Richard I could not begin to tackle jobs you can do.

[House Divided]

Richard, I read this post with keen interest for two reasons. First it was so very well written, and second because I was about to go down the same path chasing what I thought was wear in the steering box. Perhaps I will now leave well enough alone.

Thank you for sharing your experience!