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Microphor Hopper box leaking
#1
I had a leak in my rear toilet coming out from the flange on the hopper (tank) held together by 12 screws. 

The toilet was overflowing and the air pressure added after each flush was causing the hopper to purge at the flange, not out the discharge.

I added bio degradable sewer tank solution to the liquid in the tank, hoping it would slowly move towards the clog and break it down. Some of the water had passed over the 4 days after I left the solution in the hopper tank, but not all of it.  I obviously had a clogged discharge line. I removed the toilet after removing all the waste with a cut off water bottle on 2 sticks and lowering them down into the lower compartment or hopper box. 

I tried to snake the line but I only had a 5' of snake.  I should have tried harder, read on...

While the toilet was removed, I took the hopper box apart to seal it off better. The Microphor schematics say it has a 2 J bolts to hold the box on the China Bowl, mine has 2 phillips head screws. After removing the 2 screws, I tried to separate the box from the bowl, but somebody either glued it or there are more fasteners that I can't see. I didn't want to break anything so I re tightened the phillips and proceeded to removed the 12 small screws that split the hopper upper and lower box.  By the way, While the hopper box is attached to the China bowl, there are 2 screws that are extremely hard to get to. I got all of them out, cleaned the flange, lubed the rubber and carefully replaced all bolts and lightly re torqued them. I was being careful not to strip them. 

I reinstalled the toilet, plumbing and air line. I flushed 3 times and water came out of the flange again, but also out of the upper box where the hopper meets the china bowl. 

Today, I will remove the toilet and find a better, longer snake to run down the drain line.

I can't tell, but this should be a straight line to the tank, shouldn't it ? 

Should the hopper box leak as a fail point at 60 psi if the drain is plugged ?  Or am I expecting too much for it to remain sealed and air pressure bleading out the top pressure relief valve (if thats what it is) ?
Dave, Karen and buddy. 
06 Newell #784 towing a 05' Featherlight enclosed  trailer for toys and tools
A bunch of stuff on wheels, including 59' Nash metropolitan conv., KTM 250 dual sport. 

Carpe Diem. 
Tomorrow is not guaranteed.

#2
Rear toilet or half bath? Is the toilet directly over the waste tank?

The answers will determine if it is a straight drop or not. If the toilet is not directly over the waste tank, then there is at least one elbow in the line, if not two.

60 psi can generate a LOT of force if the surface area is large enough. Let's say the hopper is 8 inches by 8 inches, so 64 square inches times 60 lbs per square inch results in 3864 lbs of force. Yep, I would think two tons would deflect a plastic piece enough to cause a leak.
Richard and Rhonda Entrekin
99 Newell, 512
Subaru Outback Toad
Inverness, FL (when we're home Cool )
#3
Its the rear toilet. I guess I was asking if anyone else has had this happen ? It was cold out and the aqua hot was on, which seems to warm all (cold also) the pipes going to the back bath. I was assuming...a little to much paper, too little water, and warming of the drain pipe allowing the debris to slow and dry in the pipe.

I don't know how too prevent this from happening, unless I know how it happened.

I guess I'm just using you folks as a sounding board.

Thanks for putting up with droning on.
Dave, Karen and buddy. 
06 Newell #784 towing a 05' Featherlight enclosed  trailer for toys and tools
A bunch of stuff on wheels, including 59' Nash metropolitan conv., KTM 250 dual sport. 

Carpe Diem. 
Tomorrow is not guaranteed.

#4
                Update;
I was at Newell and asked them to help me resolve this plugged sewer line issue. By the way, there crew was super cool to work with. I asked if I could help and they encouraged it. I removed the toilet and we tried to power snake the line. There are multiple elbows on the line. At least  4 before the bedroom, and 3 or 4 after the bedroom

After no success at snakeing the line from the bathroom, we cut out 2 lines that lead into the tank in the lower compartment, to get to the one that services the toilet. We attempted to snake from the bottom up and could not get past the 3rd elbow.  It quickly turned into the nuclear option. We removed the bed, the flooring and foam around the pipes. We gently cut the  sewer pipe without cutting the water, or Aqua hot lines. The problem was also that the toilet line was below other lines.  

Once the pipe was cut and removed, we found a build up of some solid product reducing the line to less than 1".  It was an  1 1/2" ABS pipe, but with about 5/8" of build up the flow was restricted. We were able to push the snake up and down the line from this central "clean out point" in the bedroom. A blockage of paper down stream from the bedroom, had turned into a paper machete plug about 6" long. We were able to remove some, but it was nearly like concrete, we could not get the screw end of the snake into it. We removed more floor and pipe to get the plug out.  

After all that could be seen and found, we snaked further down stream and found more of a problem. UGH...We finally cleared the line and the Newell crew reassembled the pipe, foam, subfloor, flooring, back to its original appearance. 

After all of that. I have become and expert of how the lines run.  

Lessons learned, 
1) Always make sure your front of coach is lower than the rear. Somebody must have allowed it to sit and wrong and...
2) something has allowed the water to turn into a Calcium or solid in the flow line that was not paper (the black material in the pictures).

I don't know what caused this last problem. Hard water supplied ? Medicines mixing with urine, mixing with hard water, surrounded by Aqua hot lines that allows it to dry up quickly if all the planet aligns. 

Either way, this line has no clean outs and is not able to snake. Take care to keep it flowing freely. I don't know what the correct pipe cleaning solution is, but I will start with something.
Dave, Karen and buddy. 
06 Newell #784 towing a 05' Featherlight enclosed  trailer for toys and tools
A bunch of stuff on wheels, including 59' Nash metropolitan conv., KTM 250 dual sport. 

Carpe Diem. 
Tomorrow is not guaranteed.

#5
Great post, sorry for your issue, but great follow up on the fix, and pictures to illustrate.
Richard and Rhonda Entrekin
99 Newell, 512
Subaru Outback Toad
Inverness, FL (when we're home Cool )
#6
Dave,
Do you know whether the rear shower drain ties into the toilet drain pipe?  My shower is behind the rear toilet and would provide some additional water to keep the drain clear if they are tied together.
Steve Bare
1999 Newell 2 slide #531
#7
(12-12-2018, 09:07 AM)rheavn Wrote: Dave,
Do you know whether the rear shower drain ties into the toilet drain pipe?  My shower is behind the rear toilet and would provide some additional water to keep the drain clear if they are tied together.

Steve, 
My understanding is that in the dump compartment there is a second manual valve behind the air dump valve which is a grey water bypass which enables all grey water to continuously drain while having the holding tank for black water only. If this is true, wouldn’t that mean all grey water is tied together and not joined with a black water device in proximity?
Mike & Jeannie Ginn
2000 Newell #555
2013 Chevy Avalanche
#8
mike, that is my understanding as well

tom
2002 45'8" Newell Coach 608  Series 60 DDEC4/Allison World 6 Speed HD4000MH

#9
For some reason I thought I was told that the shower on a rear bath model was the one exception to the grey water bypass.  On the other hand my memory may be wrong.  Since Dave cut into the pipes, I thought he might know.  I will go look at the waste tank plumbing today.  I need to do a schematic of the plumbing on my coach.
Steve Bare
1999 Newell 2 slide #531
#10
Steve, on my coach the shower drains to the grey water bypass
Richard and Rhonda Entrekin
99 Newell, 512
Subaru Outback Toad
Inverness, FL (when we're home Cool )


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