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Charging Issues
#21

Dang, this is weird. I'm sort of a new guy here, only owned a coach for 3 months so how the system is laid out is a learning experience.

1999 45'  #504 "Magnolia"
Gravette, Arkansas
1996 40 XL Prevost Marathon 
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#22

(12-23-2022, 04:39 AM)Richard Wrote:  Well, that’s good news as far as the transfer switch goes, but I am mystified now about why the outlets work on generator power and not on shore power. There is one more long shot test we should do while you have the cover off the ATS. On the backside of the contactors, you will see that they are actually wired together, and one of them has connections that continue to the 120V breaker panel inside. If the works on generator, doesn’t work on shore power situation is confirmed, then the backside connection that leads to the breaker panel should be checked in the same manner as you performed. It is doubtful, but in the interest of a thorough diagnosis, it should be confirmed. And so should the generator vs shore power behavior be confirmed.

So, for a second, let’s discuss how the 120v circuits that run through the inverter are configured. Circuits powered by the inverter which include the 120V water pump and the 120V air compressor, are wired through the inverter. The inverter has an internal ATS. If the inverter senses external 120V power from the shore or generator, it automatically switches to uses that power for the circuits. If the inverter does not sense 120v input, then it uses the 12v battery power to invert and provide 120v AC for the circuits.

There are breakers in the 120V box that control the 120v to the inverters. Those should be checked, and flipped a couple of times to make sure they are making good contact. You may have two since you have two inverters.

If you have access to the inverters, you could check the 120V voltage at the inverter input terminals. If you have 120V at those terminals, then you pretty much have narrowed the problem to the inverter(s). The error code you listed is pretty much a “inverter has lost it’s mind” code. But it is important to eliminate all possible causes before replacing an inverter.

I don’t recall if you checked to see if the inverter will actually invert off of your manually charged batteries to produce 120V power. Would you check to see if the inverter works of 12V power now that the house batteries are charged?

The fact that your house batteries will accept and hold a charge using a manual charger tends to eliminate a bad battery as a contributor to the issue.

I have run across others with wacky inverter malfunction that traced it to faulty temperature sensors. Some inverters have temp sensors on the batteries to prevent the charger from overcharging the batteries. I don’t know if your setup has temp sensors or not.

And, HEY !, I know there are a bunch of electrical engineers on this forum. They have to have more insight than my redneck learning.

Anyone else have insight on this vexing problem?
You are spot on Richard and I now think I know what is happening. I have good A/C voltage through all of the breakers that feed the inverters and at the inverters as well as D/C to the batteries, so its coming down to the inverters. 

Here is what I think is happening:


Inverter #1 that now has the 195 code "has lost it's mind" as you said, finally died;  probably while it was inverting while I was washing the coach last weekend, and besides the batteries being low was the alarm I heard.

Inverter #2 that has the green light for shoreline power and the charge light on but has +0.0 charge to the batteries, turns on but it doesn't invert or charge, so other than light up the display and show battery voltage, is dead.

I remember when we purchased the coach and were familiarizing ourselves with the different systems, I was under the assumption that inverter #1 did the charging and inverter #2 was like a back up and only charged if there was a heavy load on the system (I've never had a coach with 2 inverters) Since we're always plugged in and rarely have much running at the same time, it never reached the level of load to have the second inverter charge. But now that I understand the paths of wiring from shoreline power and generator to the inverters and inverters to the batteries, they should have both been doing the same thing and sharing the load and charging duties (with the exception that one of them powers the 120V sub panel which I think is still randomly working, that's why I havent lost all of the 120V circuits). So I think Inverter #2 that looks like its on and does nothing, died before I purchased the coach and basically have been running on 1 inverter the whole time. I just didn't understand how it all worked. 

I'm pretty sure sure this is where we're at and I'm going to need to purchase (2) new inverters. I will verify everything  next week and I'll let you know.

Thanks for your help with testing the contactors in the transfer switch!

Have a great Christmas and  a Happy New Year, 

Regards,

Ron & Jennifer Ward
2003 Newell Show Coach #643 (Racer Bus) Triple Slide, DD 60
Visalia, CA

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#23

Well……..sometime during sleep, a quick and easy diagnostic came to me concerning Ron’s problem.

I owe Ron an apology for not thinking of this earlier. On the Newell coaches, starting somewhere in the late nineties, Newell added a really neat feature. They took the 120V output of the inverter and ran it to a junction box that contains breakers for the inverted circuits. At that junction box are TWO plug ins. One is to receive 120V power from the inverter, the second is to totally bypass the inverter and receive power directly from overall house system, which is of course originates from the pedestal.

All Ron had to do to check the continuity of the transfer switch, plugs, pedestal, cord reel, and breakers was to simply unplug the inverted circuits from the inverter and plug them into the land line plug. If his circuits activated, then the problem would have been instantly isolated to the inverter.

Mea culpa, I hope this helps someone in the future trying to diagnose a power issue.

Richard and Rhonda Entrekin
99 Newell, 512
Maverick Hybrid Toad
Inverness, FL (when we're home Cool )
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#24

Nope Richard your good... This coach doesn't have that feature, everything is hard wired. Perfect example of no two Newell's are a like.

The scenario I noted a few posts back is correct, both ProSine 3.0 Inverter/Chargers are now oversize paperweights.

I've decided to replace them with the following:

(2) MSH3012RV - Magnum 12V Hybrid Inverter/Charger
(2) ME-ARC50 - Magnum Energy Advanced Remote
(1) ME-BMK - Magnum Energy Battery Monitor Kit

This coach already has the generator auto start feature that connects to the second inverter, so if the battery voltage gets to low or a
preset temperature is hit it will start up and charge the batteries or run the A/C's. Magnum makes that feature to add to the above inverter but since the factory Newell setup still works I wont need to change it.

I'm going to use the existing ProSine rails that attach to the wall and move them and the attachments to fit the Magnum inverters.

I'll let you know how it goes,

Regards,

Ron & Jennifer Ward
2003 Newell Show Coach #643 (Racer Bus) Triple Slide, DD 60
Visalia, CA

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#25

I have same problem with my coach my inverter saying it's charging battery but I have no flow of any power from it and my battery getting discharge on the shor power try to reset it but the problem didn't go away and make things worse my house battery always charge just when I merge switch on it's hard to believe Nuwell would designed battery management this way it's got to be something wrong

AMSOIL dealer zo#1775072  215-834-8720   synoildirect.com  coch#631
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#26

Ron,  keep in mind that if you park inside and leave your auto-gen in auto mode, the situation could arise where the generator starts and would fill the building with smoke which will no doubt be inside your coach.  It has happened before so try to remember!

Karl Blade told me about that scenario occurring many years ago.

Gordon Jones
2000-45'-2slide-#567
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#27

(01-11-2023, 07:04 AM)Andriy Dyachuk Wrote:  I have same problem with my coach my inverter saying it's charging battery but I have no flow of any power from it and my battery getting discharge on the shore power try to reset it but the  problem didn't go away and make things worse my house battery always charge just when I merge switch on it's hard to believe Newell would designed battery management this way it's got to be something wrong

In my opinion the Newell design is fine. Unfortunately with  age (our coach just turned 20 years old) electronics don't last forever and they don't like heat.

Ron & Jennifer Ward
2003 Newell Show Coach #643 (Racer Bus) Triple Slide, DD 60
Visalia, CA

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#28

Well I got it all updated with the new Magnums and it works flawlessly! It was a little more challenging because this coach has two inverters, but there weren't any major issues. The only thing I still want to do is add +POS disconnect switches in the battery compartment. That way I can switch off the inverters when I have to do any battery work. I was going to put them by the inverters but I didn't for two reasons. (1) There is no real good place to put them by the inverters that would be practical to get to  and (2) When there in the battery compartment it reminds you that they are there and need to be turned off first. I also need to make a new black plastic back panel where the controls are inside the coach, but that wont be very difficult. I really like all the functionality of these hybrid inverters. 

If anyone is thinking about converting there old Prosine 3.0 inverter to the Magnum, I would be happy to walk you through it. It is a relatively straight forward conversion with very little modification.


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Ron & Jennifer Ward
2003 Newell Show Coach #643 (Racer Bus) Triple Slide, DD 60
Visalia, CA

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#29

Nice and clean installation!

1999 45'  #504 "Magnolia"
Gravette, Arkansas
1996 40 XL Prevost Marathon 
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#30

I love the raised rails you used for mounting.

I agree with the additional cutoff switches for the inverters. You can get a nasty surprise thinking the inverters are off when you turn off the house battery disconnect when on some coaches they remain on. I do not understand Newell’s logic with that, but separate switches for the inverters and the rest of the house system is the way to go.

I have used all kinds of things to make the background mounts for hiding gaps like you show on your monitor panels.

McMaster Carr sells smoked plexi and poly carbonate.

I have also used clear plexi from the home supply store. Cut it, polished the edges, and then spray painted the backside with flat black.

Richard and Rhonda Entrekin
99 Newell, 512
Maverick Hybrid Toad
Inverness, FL (when we're home Cool )
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