05-29-2019, 05:34 AM
Gurus,
This is the first post of my experiences with the Battleborn lithium batteries. I'll start with conclusion and then share some of the experiences in getting them going.
I like em. (at least so far). I ordered 6 of the BB10012 batteries. They are roughly the size of a regular car battery. They are far, far lighter than the old AGM batteries. In fact, I shed 1200 lbs in batteries by doing the switch. They seem to be constructed well and one call to technical support makes me think this business is serious. I have not dry camped with them so I don't know how they will really work....but that is for another post.
First Attempt...
When I was at the No-rally-rally, I got some buddies together and we took out the old batts and reinstalled the lithiums using the old cables. It all seemed to go together pretty well, but when it came time to test them, my Magnum charger was putting out crazy voltages (80-120VAC)! It was really weird. I did not have time to troubleshoot before heading home.
When I got back home, I disconnected all but one battery. With one battery installed the inverter still was acting up. I called Magnum and talked to their technical support. They were very good, but they were also pretty cavalier with their safety protocols. I will tell you about that in a second. They suggested that the inverter had a bad AC board...whatever that is. I found a great company Inverter Service Center who offered to either repair old one for around $500 / two weeks, or send me a new one $1800 / overnight. I opted to get a new one and will send old one back at my leisure.
Part of the troubleshooting with Magnum involved disconnecting the AC out wires from the inverter. I did that without incident...but when I went to put the AC wires back I got a nasty shock. Here is what you have to realize about the inverter. It is a pass thru when it is not inverting. (It has its own transfer switch) The power to your fridge, 120V air compressor and other stuff that runs when your are on batteries goes through the inverter. I did not fully grasp that fact until I got bit.
Second Attempt.....
After the first attempt I knew a lot more about what I was doing. Making new cables was a necessity because the batteries are far different in form factor. Also the old cables were .....what is the word?.....oh yeah....OLD! So I sent off and got 50' of black and 50' of red boat cable. All of it was 4/0 gauge. This is much higher quality than was came in the coach. Each cable is made up of lots of little copper wires, but with boat cable, the wires are tinned so that they resist corrosion better than plain copper. Of course, I had to get a bunch of lugs and a Crimper. I also got some Heat Shrink Tubing to seal the cable jacket to the lug.
About lugs....there are a million sizes. You have to get lugs made for your size cable...then you have to make sure the hole is the right size. On the coach there are some 3/8 posts and some 5/16 posts. You will need some of both.
Loaded up with supplies I made a second attempt. I gently removed the top shelf of my battery rack. And by gently removed, I really mean absolutely destroyed. This gave me much more room to work. 3/4" plywood went into the bottom of the shelf to hold the batts. The batts were wired together with newly made cables.
In my coach, the positive 12VDC goes to two places...One a lug mounted high up in the bay. It has two cables on it...one goes to the Isolator in the engine electrical bay and the other goes to the front 12VDC distribution panel in front of passenger seat. The other 12VDC cable goes directly to the inverter. While I have a shutoff in the ground wire going to inverter, I did not have a way of shutting off the 12VDC positive....so I added a switch. I also added a switch to the the wire going to the lug so I could cut off the rest of the 12V positives.
After I got the batteries wired up...time to replace the inverter.
That sucker is heavy! Disconnecting the wires was easy. (I turned off the breaker to the inverter, and also used my fancy new switch). Checking for voltages with a voltmeter is essential. Do it again, and again to make darn sure there is no voltage present on any leg. (12VDC and 120VAC).
I built a little stack of plywood to help move around the inverters. That worked really well. Got it mounted and the wires reinstalled.
IF YOU READ NOTHING ELSE ...READ THE FOLLOWING.
The Magnum charger has a very specific start up sequence. Get the manual and read it three times! I am pretty sure I killed my original inverter by not following the instructions. The manual calls for you to leave the AC power off, until you have verified the DC inverting function. After that you can test with AC. YOU CANNOT MODIFY WIRES WITH EITHER 12VDC or 120VDC APPLIED.
After the start up procedure the inverter was making 120VAC from the batts and was generating 120VAC pass thru when the shore power was connected. So all is well.
Conclusion
My old batteries were at the end of their life so it was a no brainer to replace with lithiums. Battleborn seems like a good company. I am very happy that I replaced the old cables. I am not so happy I had to replace the inverter.....expen$ive lesson.
I will report as to how they work in the real world after I have some more experience.
Thanks to Forest and Richard for giving my insight along the way. Also thank you Georg Ohm for your law.
Cheers,
bill
This is the first post of my experiences with the Battleborn lithium batteries. I'll start with conclusion and then share some of the experiences in getting them going.
I like em. (at least so far). I ordered 6 of the BB10012 batteries. They are roughly the size of a regular car battery. They are far, far lighter than the old AGM batteries. In fact, I shed 1200 lbs in batteries by doing the switch. They seem to be constructed well and one call to technical support makes me think this business is serious. I have not dry camped with them so I don't know how they will really work....but that is for another post.
First Attempt...
When I was at the No-rally-rally, I got some buddies together and we took out the old batts and reinstalled the lithiums using the old cables. It all seemed to go together pretty well, but when it came time to test them, my Magnum charger was putting out crazy voltages (80-120VAC)! It was really weird. I did not have time to troubleshoot before heading home.
When I got back home, I disconnected all but one battery. With one battery installed the inverter still was acting up. I called Magnum and talked to their technical support. They were very good, but they were also pretty cavalier with their safety protocols. I will tell you about that in a second. They suggested that the inverter had a bad AC board...whatever that is. I found a great company Inverter Service Center who offered to either repair old one for around $500 / two weeks, or send me a new one $1800 / overnight. I opted to get a new one and will send old one back at my leisure.
Part of the troubleshooting with Magnum involved disconnecting the AC out wires from the inverter. I did that without incident...but when I went to put the AC wires back I got a nasty shock. Here is what you have to realize about the inverter. It is a pass thru when it is not inverting. (It has its own transfer switch) The power to your fridge, 120V air compressor and other stuff that runs when your are on batteries goes through the inverter. I did not fully grasp that fact until I got bit.
Second Attempt.....
After the first attempt I knew a lot more about what I was doing. Making new cables was a necessity because the batteries are far different in form factor. Also the old cables were .....what is the word?.....oh yeah....OLD! So I sent off and got 50' of black and 50' of red boat cable. All of it was 4/0 gauge. This is much higher quality than was came in the coach. Each cable is made up of lots of little copper wires, but with boat cable, the wires are tinned so that they resist corrosion better than plain copper. Of course, I had to get a bunch of lugs and a Crimper. I also got some Heat Shrink Tubing to seal the cable jacket to the lug.
About lugs....there are a million sizes. You have to get lugs made for your size cable...then you have to make sure the hole is the right size. On the coach there are some 3/8 posts and some 5/16 posts. You will need some of both.
Loaded up with supplies I made a second attempt. I gently removed the top shelf of my battery rack. And by gently removed, I really mean absolutely destroyed. This gave me much more room to work. 3/4" plywood went into the bottom of the shelf to hold the batts. The batts were wired together with newly made cables.
In my coach, the positive 12VDC goes to two places...One a lug mounted high up in the bay. It has two cables on it...one goes to the Isolator in the engine electrical bay and the other goes to the front 12VDC distribution panel in front of passenger seat. The other 12VDC cable goes directly to the inverter. While I have a shutoff in the ground wire going to inverter, I did not have a way of shutting off the 12VDC positive....so I added a switch. I also added a switch to the the wire going to the lug so I could cut off the rest of the 12V positives.
After I got the batteries wired up...time to replace the inverter.
That sucker is heavy! Disconnecting the wires was easy. (I turned off the breaker to the inverter, and also used my fancy new switch). Checking for voltages with a voltmeter is essential. Do it again, and again to make darn sure there is no voltage present on any leg. (12VDC and 120VAC).
I built a little stack of plywood to help move around the inverters. That worked really well. Got it mounted and the wires reinstalled.
IF YOU READ NOTHING ELSE ...READ THE FOLLOWING.
The Magnum charger has a very specific start up sequence. Get the manual and read it three times! I am pretty sure I killed my original inverter by not following the instructions. The manual calls for you to leave the AC power off, until you have verified the DC inverting function. After that you can test with AC. YOU CANNOT MODIFY WIRES WITH EITHER 12VDC or 120VDC APPLIED.
After the start up procedure the inverter was making 120VAC from the batts and was generating 120VAC pass thru when the shore power was connected. So all is well.
Conclusion
My old batteries were at the end of their life so it was a no brainer to replace with lithiums. Battleborn seems like a good company. I am very happy that I replaced the old cables. I am not so happy I had to replace the inverter.....expen$ive lesson.
I will report as to how they work in the real world after I have some more experience.
Thanks to Forest and Richard for giving my insight along the way. Also thank you Georg Ohm for your law.
Cheers,
bill
Bill Johnson
Birmingham, Alabama