10-11-2022, 02:25 PM
It looks like I have some electrical problems with my coach 701. Currently, I am trying to investigate and resolve these issues:
1) The Xantrex Echo Charge does not appear to charge or maintain chassis batteries with shore power connected (the only LED blinks green).
2) The chassis batteries discharge around the 3 - 9 amp range when the shut-off switch is turned on (this is without touching the start switch or cranking the engine).
3) The current draw does not appear to be stable flow but fluctuates on my Fluke 336 amp meter (large amp draw when chassis batteries are switched on, initially draws around 8-9amp, then gradually reduces to 3-5 amp. But the draw is consistent as long as the chassis battery switch is on, whether shore power is present or not.
I am pretty much convinced this is not the Echo Charge device issue or hardware failure but a wiring issue, pre-existing since Marc Newman owned it.
These problems described here may have existed long since the previous owner of 701, Marc Newman, had this coach (guru forum user name: Yachts).
It's great that Marc left many threads in this forum. That allows me to get some history of my coach 701.
You may wonder how I determined the problem pre-existed a long time ago.
Here is the clue:
http://newellgurus.com/showthread.php?ti...1#pid34261
http://newellgurus.com/showthread.php?ti...9#pid23099
My observations:
This coach had originally had a "Statpower ProSine 3000 Watt Inverter/Charger"; previous owner Mac Newman (@Yachts) replaced it with a "Xantrex Freedom SW 3012", probably sometime 2017.
How do I know?
https://newellgurus.com/showthread.php?tid=3537
https://newellgurus.com/showthread.php?tid=3583
https://newellgurus.com/showthread.php?tid=3892
The picture taken just now confirmed this is the current Inverter/Charger. Model# FSW3012 FGA# 815-3012 DOM 16/MAY/2016.
Marc's post seems to show he replaced the generator at least once, and a quick conversation with Mark Newman: Newell had replaced the transfer switch on this 701 coach total of 8 times! Does this hint something else might be a problem (thus causing it to fail), or perhaps some wiring errors causing it, as I describe at below?
Stat with all circuit breakers at the off position. This is the only circuit breaker panel for AC I have found on this coach.
Please comment and let me know the location if there is another AC 120/240v breaker panel.
I have two (2) switches in the house battery bay, one marked "INVERTER", and another marked " AUXILLARY BATTERY".
The tops 3, and bottom 3 are grouped in parallel.
Because measuring top and bottom battery groups always yield the same reading, I believe all 6 house batteries are connected in parallel.
Start testing, and measuring the house batteries, it reads at 13.0V
The chassis battery reads at 12.96V, with a shut-off switch at the OFF position.
In the wiring closet right under the hydraulic storage tank, where the Xantrex Echo Charge is located, there is a big terminal where two red, thick and several small thin wires connect together (marked as Q). The voltage reading here is 0 (shows 10mv to be exact, so negligible).
Now, I turn on shore power (external electrical panel 50amp circuit breaker). And turn on the battery switch for the inverter. Now the house battery voltage rises from 13.0v to 14.15v, meaning the Xantrex Freedom SW 3012 is now charging the house batteries.
Now, I turn on the chassis battery switch (engine bay), the clamp meter reads about 4.5 amp, and the voltage reading drops to 12.89 (from 12.96).
Now I go to the wiring closet under the hydraulic tank, the reading at the terminal Q changes from 0v to 12.17V
What puzzles me is this 12.17v reading.
Looking at the Xantrex box, there is a LED blinking green. The manual says:
"When the input voltage is lower than 13.0/26.0 volts, the Digital echo~charge automatically switches OFF, and the indicator light blinks green."
But my house battery is charging, and the voltage reads at 14.15v with shore power. This does not make sense.
So I started to check the wiring. It appears there the existing wiring is erroneous.
There are three (3) wires coming out from the Echo Charge:
Black = to ground, Marked G
Red = to Start Battery marked S0, (i.e., Chassis Battery, stained with some white to illustrate the path)
Striped Red = to House Battery, marked H0
Both the S0 wire and H0 wire goes through a 20 amp fuse (both fuses are tested good), then become S1 and H1, respectively.
S1 connects to Q, and H1 connects to MR (Merge Relay?).
A thick red wire (marked as Q) connects the terminal MR.
This means from the echo charge, the S0 and H0 are actually connected together!
This looks like a wiring error to me. What do other gurus think? Please share your thoughts.
Now here are my questions and request for help from fellow gurus:
1) Could you share a couple of photos of the wiring closet where your Xentrex Echo Charge is located?
2) There is a switch (in the same closet as the Echo Charge is located) marked "Foreign". What does this switch control?
3) In this same electrical wiring closet. I have 4 loose wire ends. Brown and Yellow wires are twisted together.
One is purple, and 4th one is a mixed color of red and yellow.
Do you have the same wire, and where these suppose to connect to?
4) There are two battery disconnects in the house battery bay. One is marked "Auxillary Battery" what does this switch controls?
It looks like when this switch is turned on, the Xentrex 3012 no longer charges the house battery, it actually starts to draw power from the battery.
5) There are two (2) thin/small wires connected to the chassis battery in the engine bay. Where do these two small wires connect to?
1) The Xantrex Echo Charge does not appear to charge or maintain chassis batteries with shore power connected (the only LED blinks green).
2) The chassis batteries discharge around the 3 - 9 amp range when the shut-off switch is turned on (this is without touching the start switch or cranking the engine).
3) The current draw does not appear to be stable flow but fluctuates on my Fluke 336 amp meter (large amp draw when chassis batteries are switched on, initially draws around 8-9amp, then gradually reduces to 3-5 amp. But the draw is consistent as long as the chassis battery switch is on, whether shore power is present or not.
I am pretty much convinced this is not the Echo Charge device issue or hardware failure but a wiring issue, pre-existing since Marc Newman owned it.
These problems described here may have existed long since the previous owner of 701, Marc Newman, had this coach (guru forum user name: Yachts).
It's great that Marc left many threads in this forum. That allows me to get some history of my coach 701.
You may wonder how I determined the problem pre-existed a long time ago.
Here is the clue:
http://newellgurus.com/showthread.php?ti...1#pid34261
http://newellgurus.com/showthread.php?ti...9#pid23099
My observations:
This coach had originally had a "Statpower ProSine 3000 Watt Inverter/Charger"; previous owner Mac Newman (@Yachts) replaced it with a "Xantrex Freedom SW 3012", probably sometime 2017.
How do I know?
https://newellgurus.com/showthread.php?tid=3537
https://newellgurus.com/showthread.php?tid=3583
https://newellgurus.com/showthread.php?tid=3892
The picture taken just now confirmed this is the current Inverter/Charger. Model# FSW3012 FGA# 815-3012 DOM 16/MAY/2016.
Marc's post seems to show he replaced the generator at least once, and a quick conversation with Mark Newman: Newell had replaced the transfer switch on this 701 coach total of 8 times! Does this hint something else might be a problem (thus causing it to fail), or perhaps some wiring errors causing it, as I describe at below?
Stat with all circuit breakers at the off position. This is the only circuit breaker panel for AC I have found on this coach.
Please comment and let me know the location if there is another AC 120/240v breaker panel.
I have two (2) switches in the house battery bay, one marked "INVERTER", and another marked " AUXILLARY BATTERY".
The tops 3, and bottom 3 are grouped in parallel.
Because measuring top and bottom battery groups always yield the same reading, I believe all 6 house batteries are connected in parallel.
Start testing, and measuring the house batteries, it reads at 13.0V
The chassis battery reads at 12.96V, with a shut-off switch at the OFF position.
In the wiring closet right under the hydraulic storage tank, where the Xantrex Echo Charge is located, there is a big terminal where two red, thick and several small thin wires connect together (marked as Q). The voltage reading here is 0 (shows 10mv to be exact, so negligible).
Now, I turn on shore power (external electrical panel 50amp circuit breaker). And turn on the battery switch for the inverter. Now the house battery voltage rises from 13.0v to 14.15v, meaning the Xantrex Freedom SW 3012 is now charging the house batteries.
Now, I turn on the chassis battery switch (engine bay), the clamp meter reads about 4.5 amp, and the voltage reading drops to 12.89 (from 12.96).
Now I go to the wiring closet under the hydraulic tank, the reading at the terminal Q changes from 0v to 12.17V
What puzzles me is this 12.17v reading.
Looking at the Xantrex box, there is a LED blinking green. The manual says:
"When the input voltage is lower than 13.0/26.0 volts, the Digital echo~charge automatically switches OFF, and the indicator light blinks green."
But my house battery is charging, and the voltage reads at 14.15v with shore power. This does not make sense.
So I started to check the wiring. It appears there the existing wiring is erroneous.
There are three (3) wires coming out from the Echo Charge:
Black = to ground, Marked G
Red = to Start Battery marked S0, (i.e., Chassis Battery, stained with some white to illustrate the path)
Striped Red = to House Battery, marked H0
Both the S0 wire and H0 wire goes through a 20 amp fuse (both fuses are tested good), then become S1 and H1, respectively.
S1 connects to Q, and H1 connects to MR (Merge Relay?).
A thick red wire (marked as Q) connects the terminal MR.
This means from the echo charge, the S0 and H0 are actually connected together!
This looks like a wiring error to me. What do other gurus think? Please share your thoughts.
Now here are my questions and request for help from fellow gurus:
1) Could you share a couple of photos of the wiring closet where your Xentrex Echo Charge is located?
2) There is a switch (in the same closet as the Echo Charge is located) marked "Foreign". What does this switch control?
3) In this same electrical wiring closet. I have 4 loose wire ends. Brown and Yellow wires are twisted together.
One is purple, and 4th one is a mixed color of red and yellow.
Do you have the same wire, and where these suppose to connect to?
4) There are two battery disconnects in the house battery bay. One is marked "Auxillary Battery" what does this switch controls?
It looks like when this switch is turned on, the Xentrex 3012 no longer charges the house battery, it actually starts to draw power from the battery.
5) There are two (2) thin/small wires connected to the chassis battery in the engine bay. Where do these two small wires connect to?
Joe Zhao @ Greenville TX 75402
2004 Newell Coach 701, 45-8, 4 Slides, Front Entry
Detroit Diesel 60 w/DDEC, Allison 6-Speed AT, ZF Suspension w/Steerable Tag, ZF Auto Traction Control