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My 2020 Tire War Saga
#1

I am recovering from Covid, so I don’t have much energy other that to provide a long tale about some critical mistakes I made when I replaced all the tires on our coach prior to our 2020 trip. You have my permission to laugh at my folly. 

First, the tires were 6 years old according to date codes with very minor cracking. They would have easily gone one or two more years. But we were sitting at home waiting for the lockdown to end, and I was bored, and started to look at getting some new shoes. After shopping around, I found that National Tire Concierge Services seemed like the way to go. I want to be very clear. The whole debacle that followed was NOT David Ward’s fault. He worked patiently and tirelessly with me to try to rectify the problems.

David had the tires delivered to Snider Tire in Ocala. I show up on the morning appointment, check in with the service manager, and he tells me the installer was on a late call, and will be in shortly to install my tires. Cool. It’s a cool morning and I am sitting in the door drinking coffee when the install truck pulls up at the other end of the parking lot. The installer climbs out of the truck SCREAMING an obscenity over and over. I immediately do not want this guy touching my rig. I follow him in the building and start looking for the service manager. I want to call this deal off. I search for twenty minutes with no luck, not answering pages. When I get back to the coach, the gorilla already has all the back tires off. He is calmer. Now, I notice, that the rear tires he is installing are not steer tires. They look like dump truck lugged tires. This was a huge mistake on my part. David had told me they would be XDN2 tires, and I sort of looked at them in the Michelin catalog and said ok. It was clear seeing them in person, that there was a low probability that I was going to like this. One of the few times in my life that i was physically intimated prevented me from putting the brakes on this operation. I was no match for a 6 4 280 pounder with crack teeth. 

So he mounted the 365s on the front, and took them inside for spin balancing. As soon as I hit interstate speed I had rhythmic vibration. Now I am the one screaming obscenities. 

So, in my effort to take control of this situation, I install beads in the rear tires with a homemade device that blows them through the valve stem. It doesn’t help. I am not just judging by the seat of my pants. I have vibration analysis software on my phone, and I would Carefully maintain a speed on a smooth road while Rhonda place the phone above every tire in the coach. I had data. 

Our first layover was in Chattanooga. On the way up, at one rest area, I added beads to the previously spun balanced fronts. No improvement. So I contacted the Michelin truck guy in Chattanooga, had all the beads removed and all eight tires spin balanced. These installers are worse than than guy in Orlando. First they significantly damaged the rims with their tire iron. Second one of them applied the stick on weight to that outside of the rim. When the error was pointed out, he removed the weight, but instead of using solvent to remove the adhesive, he used a wire wheel on die grinder.  ARrrggggh. AS we are leaving Chattanooga I hear and feel weights coming off the wheels. I find some of them stuck to the hood of the tow car that evening. Shop manager took one look at the drive tires and said you will be removing those. Seen them tried before on high end coaches. They always come off. And I called them back after the weights flying off, and they refunded what i paid them

OH yeah, replaced the tow car windshield in Chattanooga where the dump truck tires promptly cracked. Towed the car fo 75k miles with no issues, and first long drive with lugged tires results in broken windshield.

Richard and Rhonda Entrekin
99 Newell, 512
Maverick Hybrid Toad
Inverness, FL (when we're home Cool )
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#2

So now, I am exasperated on call David for help. I send him out intinerary, and he hooks us up with a shop in Columbia MS. I pay to have all six tires spun balanced again. Except MS is one of the states that has outlawed lead weights. The guy doing the work is a mumbled, and clearly irritated that i watching him like a hawk. He can’t get the fronts to balance. Mumble, mumble, mumble. I find out at the next shop he has used hammer on weights intended for steel rims. He did manage to tear one of the fender flares loose from the coach because he would listen when I told him how it must be jacked.

Hit the road again. NO improvement. Call David again. WE have to replace the drive tires. That won’t fix the steering wheel shake but the tired have to go. He has six Mich Zline steers waiting for me Twin Falls ID. Two Idaho farm boys come to the campground. Change the tires, add the beads, torque the nuts, and are extremely pleasant to be around. Test drive and vibration software says rears are now good to go. I left the almost brand new takeoff with them on consignment on a leap of faith. It worked out. ON a sidebar, I lost almost a MPG with the lugged tires, and it came right back with the steer tires on the rear.

Now, I just have the steer tires to OCD about for the next 3000 miles. I take them to a shop in Spokane, when the tech is very good. He does exactly what i ask him to do. He deflates the tire rotates it on the rim, and reinflates with the tire and rim flat on the ground to give the tire the best chance of seating true to the rim. I watch him balance the tires, and he too has a lot of trouble. Well I have pictures, bills, video of the balancing, and vibration graphs. When I get home, Michelin is going to cough up some new 365s.

On the way home, I cannot stop tinkering and measuring, so I add some beads again to the spun balanced fronts. It gets better, I can live with this, and besides Rhonda doesn’t want to hear about tires.

So, it occurs to me that my chewed up front disc rotors might actually be a contributor. I did find that on a car once. And when I did the 365 conversion many years ago it was before we knew about the Prevost studs, so I went off the reservation and had the 365 rims machined to accept the existing studs.

So I am going to replace the front rotors, and while I am at it obtain the prevost studs and new rims.

It should come across that wouldn’t get up out of the electric chair to go to a truck tire place again. I looked at the total cost of what I had paid and decided I was going into business for myself. I spent less than a 1000 bucks for a 1 inch gun, two tire irons, a torque stick, the 1/2 inch airline, and high flow fittings.

I took the tires off the old front rims, mounted them on the new rims, added 22oz beads to each front. NO scuffs on my new rims. Went for an interstate drive before Covid laid me low. Glasphalt. WOOO HOOOOO.

Richard and Rhonda Entrekin
99 Newell, 512
Maverick Hybrid Toad
Inverness, FL (when we're home Cool )
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#3

To summarize all that in case you fell asleep reading.

Don’t put XDN tires on the rear.
Balancing beads work, even in 365 tires, you just have to use more than the table calls for. 22oz worked for me.

This is how to change the tire without touching the shiny slide of the rim. First you need a CLEAN carpet to lay it on, not the sand and rock infested on that has been in the service truck for years. Lay the tire down shiny rim up. Pour a liberal amount of soapy water at the tire rim edge. Use a five pound dead blow hammer and break the bead loose. It’s easier than you think. Now flip the assembly over, and break the bead on the back the same way. Now you can use your tire irons to lift the back bead off the rim. Pull up on the tire and remove the front bead off the rear of the rim. The key thought is your irons ONLY touch the backside of the rim. Put a ton of tire snot on the tire before installing. The shiny side stays down. This is not the way a pro does it, because it’s quicker to come in from the shiny side and pull the tire onto the rim. With my way, it takes five minutes longer, but you don’t get two ugly scuffs on the shiny side.

I hope you got a little entertainment out of my missadventure. I don’t know if simply more beads, new rotors, and a more precise rim mount was the cure. I am just happy to move onto a different obsession, and so is Rhonda.

Richard and Rhonda Entrekin
99 Newell, 512
Maverick Hybrid Toad
Inverness, FL (when we're home Cool )
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#4

Richard,  you have my empathy.  Tire center in Columbus did my complete swap but did have trouble with the 365 balance.  Broke down and rotated wheel to tire and was able to spin successfully, I was glad.   They used stick on weights on the inside successfully.  I’m glad my experience was not like yours.  

Keep on healing up and recover your strength

Gordon Jones
2000-45'-2slide-#567
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#5

Wow! what an adventure with a successful ending. I noticed a picture when you were doing your rear brakes you had traction tires and wondered why. Hey I thought, if Richard put lugged tires on his coach, maybe it's worth looking into. So allow me a hahaha at your expense. Just kidding, sorry but glad it worked out.
And hope you recover quickly.

Forest & Cindy Olivier
1987 log cabin
2011 Roadtrek C210P
PO 1999 Foretravel 36'
1998 Newell 45' #486 

1993 Newell 39' #337 
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#6

My only tire problem was finding tires with a "newer Date code" Mine were 9 months to a years old at install date. Ugh !

I have had plenty of mistakes and issues I could write a book about. For me though, mostly self inflicted, pilot error. So I laugh with you not at you. LOL. I like that you can talk about them and educate the rest of us.

My take away was the Covid. Sorry to hear and I hope you have a full recovery. I've not know anyone, personally to get it, yet. My wife is certainly in a high risk factor so we have been extra cautious. But I understand even Caution and protection may not be enough.

Again, Hope all is well and I hope Rhonda didn't have to go thru it also.

Dave, Karen, w/Buddy and Moose. 
06' Newell #784
towing a 05' Featherlight enclosed trailer for toys and tools, 
or a 21' F350 Big Grin w KTM 300, and MTB in the back
35' Packard 4 dr convertible
59' Nash Metropolitan
+ 4 more cars and 8 motorcycles


Carpe Diem. Have Fun
Tomorrow is not guaranteed.
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#7

Wow nice write up, sorry about all the issues including Covid. In my youth I worked at a shop that did the big tires like on our coaches. I've never tried changing one myself, I was always afraid to try. Sounds like I could do it though. Appreciate your story and hope I don't run into similar, including Covid.
Hope you're feeling better soon.

John and Marcia Marshall 
1975 Newell 30ft - 9.0 IHC
1986 Navstar 9.0 Diesel 160hp
98 Mustang GT
getting closer
ASE Master & Computer Admin
Love old tech  Idea
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#8

Now that's an ordeal ! Hope you are recovering well from C-19 . Friends (couple ) had it several weeks ago , put them down for two or three days . 
This Budd wheel is for you !
Chris

1986 #89
VIN 007
Detroit 8V92 TA 475 HP
Allison four speed 
Chris and Sharon Hand
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#9

I hope this is not inappropriate, but I have had a number of gurus reach out to me privately about the Covid business, so I am providing an update. Both Rhonda and I are are finally starting to recover. I had a slightly worse bit of it than her, but we were pancaked for 16 days before the turnaround started.

I am not sure how long it will take to regain full strength but we have made the turn.

We had all the symptoms, and being an over achiever, I added the Covid rash. For 16 days, I hovered at the hospitalization level for O2 saturation, and I could not move. I was either on the couch or in the bed. My O2 levels are way up, and I feel much better. We will get tested again tomorrow. I want a neg result before I venture into public.

We were extremely careful, but circumstances three to four weeks ago forced us into contact with a few people who were not wearing masks. I have no way of knowing how or where we may have been infected. Take the virus seriously and protect yourself and family.

Thank all of you for checking in on us.

Richard and Rhonda Entrekin
99 Newell, 512
Maverick Hybrid Toad
Inverness, FL (when we're home Cool )
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#10

Praying for both you and Rhonda! Hope you get well soon and come back even stronger!

Karen & Adrian Abshire 
1998 2 slide 45' Newell Coach 498 
Prior: 1985 Foretravel ORED 35, 1988 38' Foretravel U280, 2000 Foretravel 42' U320, 1990 Bluebird Wanderlodge WB40
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